American Flag on Shirt

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ksandi
When I say those officials wearing flags is demeaning, I admit that it’s a bold statement. But that it is my honest opinion. ...

The problem I have with this statement is that you want to
speak for the millions who have served. To me that
falls under the heading of "demeaning". Better you would
have just said "it demeans my accomplishments as one who
did serve". Beyond that, the term "patriotic organization"
goes completely undefined. An organization is patriotic if
the members are patriots (duh). Wearing a flag emblem
on your uni goes a long way towards demonstrating your
patriotic nature. Bottom line: if you don't want to wear
the d@mn flag, don't wear it. Don't demean me by demanding
I hold the same view, and certainly don't wave your status
as a vet to add additional weight to your opionion. Before
I go outside & excersize me freedom to fly a kite I'll leave
you with a quote I stole from a really bright young guy I
know:

"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on."

-- Winston Churchill

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

I'll leave you with a quote I stole from a really bright young guy I know:

"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on."

-- Winston Churchill

Winston's no spring chicken anymore, Dan!! LOL

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Winston's no spring chicken anymore, Dan!! LOL

Chuck [/B]

Hey, no one likes a wiseguy, especially a bright young
one!

[pizanno]

does it have to be an American flag?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by pizanno
does it have to be an American flag?

Actually, in honor of FEEBLE rules, I think we're supposed to wear the Canadian flag.

[ksandi]

First, you are misrepresenting my post. At no time have I said that it is wrong for a person to display the flag. Such a symbolic gesture is quite worthy of praise. What I said was that it is wrong to leave it at that. We all should do more to support our nation all the time. Not just when a conflict arises. Correct me if I’m wrong but a 35% voter turnout during an election is considered to be above normal.

I thought this site was for officials to discuss general thoughts about sports rules and interpretations of them. Somehow it appears to be drifting off onto another tangent. The question by Dan was;
“Do we want to, as an Association, wear the American Flag on our referee shirt?”

And to that I expressed my thoughts…
“I don’t believe that it’s appropriate for anyone to ‘mandate’ that a person wears a flag in anyway.”
To me that statement defines itself, so what is it that you missed?

I went on to say…
“If any official chooses to wear a flag on his uniform, to me that would demean the accomplishments of the men & women who are putting their lives on the line everyday. Sports and politics ought to be kept separate.”

After reading this again, I admit it is a bit confusing. Having said that, allow me to elaborate. No one should be forced to place a flag on his or her uniform. It should be an individuals’ prerogative. I don’t think we should legislate something such as this.

Finally, you should not confuse my opinions to represent anyone other than me.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by ksandi
First, you are misrepresenting my post. At no time have I said that it is wrong for a person to display the flag. Such a symbolic gesture is quite worthy of praise. What I said was that it is wrong to leave it at that. We all should do more to support our nation all the time. Not just when a conflict arises. Correct me if I’m wrong but a 35% voter turnout during an election is considered to be above normal.

I thought this site was for officials to discuss general thoughts about sports rules and interpretations of them. Somehow it appears to be drifting off onto another tangent. The question by Dan was;
“Do we want to, as an Association, wear the American Flag on our referee shirt?”

And to that I expressed my thoughts…
“I don’t believe that it’s appropriate for anyone to ‘mandate’ that a person wears a flag in anyway.”
To me that statement defines itself, so what is it that you missed?

I went on to say…
“If any official chooses to wear a flag on his uniform, to me that would demean the accomplishments of the men & women who are putting their lives on the line everyday. Sports and politics ought to be kept separate.”

After reading this again, I admit it is a bit confusing. Having said that, allow me to elaborate. No one should be forced to place a flag on his or her uniform. It should be an individuals’ prerogative. I don’t think we should legislate something such as this.

Finally, you should not confuse my opinions to represent anyone other than me.

And, to stay further on point, my point was that an association has the right to dictate to its members, what their official dress code shall be. To my knowledge, all associations mandate the wearing of an association patch, long pants or shorts, black shoes & socks, V-neck shirts, etc. If the association wants to mandate that their members must attached American flag patches to their jerseys, they have that right, assuming the decision was made within the policy of the association.

I think, however, I would fight them on a religious symbol. Plus - you have the issue of flag patches coming under the official flag code.

Boy - these things were easier to discuss when all we stuck to was basketball.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ksandi
First, you are misrepresenting my post. At no time have I said that it is wrong for a person to display the flag. Such a symbolic gesture is quite worthy of praise. What I said was that it is wrong to leave it at that. We all should do more to support our nation all the time. Not just when a conflict arises. Correct me if I’m wrong but a 35% voter turnout during an election is considered to be above normal.

This is what we commonly call a red herring. Off the point
and muddys the argument by indirection. It doesn't matter
if 100%, or 2% of voters turned out. What about the
starving children in Elbonia??!!

[quote]
I thought this site was for officials to discuss general thoughts about sports rules and interpretations of them. Somehow it appears to be drifting off onto another tangent. The question by Dan was;
“Do we want to, as an Association, wear the American Flag on our referee shirt?”

And to that I expressed my thoughts…
“I don’t believe that it’s appropriate for anyone to ‘mandate’ that a person wears a flag in anyway.”
To me that statement defines itself, so what is it that you missed?

[quote]

I posted this before in a thread here last month, I'll
post it again: When you get the call to work the NCAA
D1 tourney next March are you going to question the mandate
requiring you to put the NCAA patch on your shirt? As Mark
posted are you gonna question the mandate to wear black
socks & black sansabelts? It is appropriate for an
authoritive organization to mandate what constitutes a
uniform. But this aside, all "flag" regulations that I
am aware of state clearly that each member of the crew is
to wear a flag. If one does not wear it none wear it.
Not exactly a "mandate".

I went on to say…
“If any official chooses to wear a flag on his uniform, to me that would demean the accomplishments of the men & women who are putting their lives on the line everyday. Sports and politics ought to be kept separate.”

After reading this again, I admit it is a bit confusing. Having said that, allow me to elaborate. No one should be forced to place a flag on his or her uniform. It should be an individuals’ prerogative. I don’t think we should legislate something such as this.

So when are you going to start your crusade to eliminate
the requirement for black socks? But more to the point,
the regs I've seen require ALL or NONE to wear the flag.
If you decide to not wear the flag it is not an issue,
you in fact dictate to the crew that flags shall not be worn
when you work.

Finally, you should not confuse my opinions to represent anyone other than me.

If you don't want to be confusing you should attempt to
present your thoughts more clearly before pressing
"submit".

This will end my participation in this discussion.

Fellas, this, IMHO is getting rediculous, we all have the right to agree to disagree. If some of you don't want to where a flag then don't. I have never "officailly" served my country as an enlisted member of the armed forces,( I was A Sea Cadet, jokes to follow later) but I do feel like I'm supporting it, as well as those who put their lives on the line during the 9/11 tragedy, by wearing a flag on my ref shirt. We wear these flags and hang them on our cars and paste them to the windows of our houses so we don't forget what the terrorist did on that day. There are other generations of our families who have been displying the colors of our country so as not to forget the tragedies of other battles, Pearl Harbor, Korea and Viet Nam to name a few. I think that is the more important subject here not whether we are demeaning anything. Thanks for letting me also agree to disagree.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ksandi
First, you are misrepresenting my post. At no time have I said that it is wrong for a person to display the flag.

First, I hope the above comment is not directed at me, b/c in no way did I ever misrepresent your post. I took a direct quote from your post and responded to it. You said that it is demeaning to our servicemen and servicewomen for officials to wear flag patches. The exact quote follows (again):

If any official chooses to wear a flag on his uniform, to me that would demean the accomplishments of the men & women who are putting their lives on the line everyday.

and I replied that someone would have to explain that to me. (Interestingly, you still haven't provided any reason at all to think that it's demeaning.) Then I gave several reasons for thinking that it is not, in fact, demeaning for non-military citizens or citizens who are not members of "patriotic organizations" to display flags.

“I don’t believe that it’s appropriate for anyone to ‘mandate’ that a person wears a flag in anyway.”
To me that statement defines itself, so what is it that you missed?

Nope. I didn't miss that. In fact, I stated that if this were your only point, that I would probably agree with you. I should have said that I would wholeheartedly agree with you. Forcing a person to wear a flag is counter to what the military is fighting for in Afghanistan. But, of course, that wasn't your only point.

Finally, you should not confuse my opinions to represent anyone other than me.

I didn't. Why would you think I did? I responded to comments from you and also from someone else, but I didn't ever attribute your comments to anyone else.

Anyone wishing to draw this discussion out further is free to contact me via email, but I probably will not post further on this subject (in this thread, anyway ).

Chuck