Three Second Count Suspended

[WhistlesAndStripes]

From Another THread:

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I told him that as long as the player is making an offensive move, the three second count SUSPENDS and that double pumping is part of the attempt to shoot.

I seem to recall something about the 5 second closely guarded call being suspended also during a move to the basket, but when I went looking for it last week, couldn't find it. Can anyone tell me if this is the case or not, and if so, please cite the rule reference?

Thanks.

[Ignats75]

It stops if the offensive player gets his head & shoulders past the defender.

[JRutledge]

The rulebook says "allowances" for a player making a move to the basket should be made as it relates to the 3 second count.

Also just a move to the basket does not suspend a 5 second count. You must get past a defender to some extent to have that happen.

Peace

[WAWhistleBlower]

I know that you can find the three second call under the subsection of the NFHS book that discusses officiating philosophy, though I'm not sure exactly what that section is titled without having it right in front of me. Perhaps they speak on the 5 second count as well? They do clarify that when the head and shoulders are past the defender, the count stops altogether, it doesn't suspend...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

From Another THread:



I seem to recall something about the 5 second closely guarded call being suspended also during a move to the basket, but when I went looking for it last week, couldn't find it. Can anyone tell me if this is the case or not, and if so, please cite the rule reference?

Thanks.

There is no suspension of the 5-second closely guarded. If you stop it you have to start a new one.

[Ref Daddy]

That is correct and a key point. Suspend suggests a restart.

After player gets head / shoulder ahead - restart when appropriate.

[Red_Killian]

OK, since this thread is also discussing closely guarded....from 4-10: A closely guarded count shall be terminated when the offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player. I've always took this to mean while dribbling but the rule does say only while in control of the ball. So if a player is not dribbling, is closely guarded by a defender and while pivoting/lunging w/o traveling, gets their head and shoulders past the defender do you stop your closely guarded count? I'll admit I have not in the past but now must re-think my held ball closely guarded count.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

So if a player is not dribbling, is closely guarded by a defender and while pivoting/lunging w/o traveling, gets their head and shoulders past the defender do you stop your closely guarded count?

Keep the count going. You haven't beaten a player if you're not going anywhere.

[Splute]

On that note.. it is my understanding that while closely guarded the player has 5 seconds while dribbling (pending termination as mentioned for going head/shoulders past) but also if he stops dribbling, the count begins again while holding the ball. Is this a correct interpretation?

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Splute

On that note.. it is my understanding that while closely guarded the player has 5 seconds while dribbling (pending termination as mentioned for going head/shoulders past) but also if he stops dribbling, the count begins again while holding the ball. Is this a correct interpretation?

Yes. It is correct.

[stmaryrams]

One could actually have a 4 second holding the ball after first receiving it, followed by 4 seconds dribbling and another 4 seconds holding all while closely guarded and no violation.

This one wigs out the Jr High parents.

[Red_Killian]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Keep the count going. You haven't beaten a player if you're not going anywhere.

Jurassic, that's exactly what I thought until I looked at the wording of closely guarded in detail. I had a kid ask me on Friday, if he didn't get his head/shoulders past the defender after I called a 5 second closely guarded violation. I told him it didn't apply on the held ball part of the count. Then I saw this thread and actually looked at the exact wording of the rule.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

One could actually have a 4 second holding the ball after first receiving it, followed by 4 seconds dribbling and another 4 seconds holding all while closely guarded and no violation.

This one wigs out the Jr High parents.

Actually the rule is 4.9 and then 4.9 and then 4.9.

But you're dead on about the JH parents!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Did anyone see the 5 second call at the end of the Indiana/Illinois game on Saturday? And did anyone with a TiVo or similar contraption rewind and time it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

Jurassic, that's exactly what I thought until I looked at the wording of closely guarded in detail. I had a kid ask me on Friday, if he didn't get his head/shoulders past the defender after I called a 5 second closely guarded violation. I told him it didn't apply on the held ball part of the count. Then I saw this thread and actually looked at the exact wording of the rule.

Red, I can see the gray area in the write-up. I just can't believe that the purpose and intent of the rule is to stop the count in that situation though. The player with the ball hasn't really done anything imo to negate the good work done by the defense. I think that the idea of the rule is to award good defense, and you're doing that in this case by maintaining the count.

Jmo... on a good point that you've brought up.