Indiana HS Officials...need your help!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Indy_Ref

For any of you who've had Coach Todd Salkoski roam the sideline in one of your games, you know what a complete jackass he can be. For those of you who've never had the "privilege," allow me enlighten you.
...

After his team's VERY FIRST POSSESSION of the game, he gets up and walks to my partner who was @ the C position and exclaims, "Is that the way it's going to be today? Am I coming into this building to get screwed again like I always do!?!?"
...
He tends to push the officials as far as he possibly can before he gets the stop sign. After that, he normally picks & chooses his moments when he offers his opinion on our calls. He was a pain in our asses that whole day...but he didn't "test" the other 2 of us that day like he did our 3rd.

What galls me the most, is this guy was considered a decent and respectable official when he worked ballgames. For those of you who do not want to click on the link, Salkoski used to officiate for 10 years prior to becoming a coach, after which he quit officiating. ...

tomegun, who is from Indiana, will be so happy to hear about officials giving this guy the stop sign.

BTW how can one officiate for 10 years without knowing what traveling is?

[tomegun]

I have three comments and I know one will not be welcomed.

1. I think his first comment is accurate. I don't know about everywhere, but in Southern Nevada, Maryland/DC and Mississippi high school officiating isn't where it should be. The people on this board are a small percentage of officials; many other officials do not work hard on anything except getting their checks.
2. Why did the OP go into a game with this coach without telling his partner about the coach in pregame? He said the coach surprised the official 20 seconds into the game.
3. Hopefully, I made my position clear in another thread concerning the stop sign. The OP mentions the stop sign like it is a necessary step towards this coach getting a T. This is one reason I don't care for it much. This coach seems to repeatedly display bad sportsmanship in a high school game. This is high school! If this coach does this constantly, he should constantly get a technical foul. IMO, this is one of the main problems with the high school game. Coaches and players do not display good sportsmanship and technical fouls aren't given enough.

BTW, I'm sooooooooooooo dissappointed in Indiana basketball for going to multiple classes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I have three comments and I know one will not be welcomed.

1. I think his first comment is accurate. I don't know about everywhere, but in Southern Nevada, Maryland/DC and Mississippi high school officiating isn't where it should be. The people on this board are a small percentage of officials; many other officials do not work hard on anything except getting their checks.

I can attest that the same is true in Northern Nevada.

[Nate1224hoops]

I can also agree. Officiating in my little corner of the world in VA is not what it should be. To be frank on most nights I get embarrassed by what some of my collegues do. We too are short on officials, and this sometimes puts younger, less experienced guys on the floor. Many of our older officials do not have a good understanding of the game. IMO here is the problem: Officials in my area receive I nice PAYDAY. It's easy money. 3 man crews. Most work 3-5 games a week. The money is attractive, even if you have no clue. The open book test are a joke also.
Last week I was the L on the baseline, quick steal. My partner wasn't ready for the change of possesion(boys game, very fast). He quickly spinted behind the two players. Team A who had just stolen the ball was being chased by Team B. Player A was in the act of taking his 1-2 for the lay-up, when he went to the floor hard and the ball rolled out of bounds. Player B stepped on the back of his shoe and they both hit the ground. My partner has::::NOTHING. Team B's ball. I wanted to just crawl under the bleachers. This call was made with 2 min left in the 1st period. As you can imagine the fans and coaches were on us all night. It makes everyone look really bad. We have some great officials in our association as well. However, you put two bad ones with a great one and you have 3 bad ones. LOL

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

My partner has::::NOTHING. Team B's ball. I wanted to just crawl under the bleachers. This call was made with 2 min left in the 1st period. As you can imagine the fans and coaches were on us all night. It makes everyone look really bad. We have some great officials in our association as well. However, you put two bad ones with a great one and you have 3 bad ones. LOL

Nate, can you talk about how you helped this young official and made him better? Not to be rude but it seems like, just from this post, that you have spent most of your energy "crawling under the bleachers" and groaning at his mistakes rather than taking a deep breath and creating a teaching opportunity.

We young officials NEED HELP. We can't do it alone. We're gonna make mistakes and if you come after us with a red face and smoke comin' out of your ears, it's not gonna help. Put your arm around us, teach us. Don't just get frustrated with us.

Thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Nate, can you talk about how you helped this young official and made him better? Not to be rude but it seems like, just from this post, that you have spent most of your energy "crawling under the bleachers" and groaning at his mistakes rather than taking a deep breath and creating a teaching opportunity.

We young officials NEED HELP. We can't do it alone. We're gonna make mistakes and if you come after us with a red face and smoke comin' out of your ears, it's not gonna help. Put your arm around us, teach us. Don't just get frustrated with us.

Excellent post. And point. Something for all of us to to think about.

[Ignats75]

I am very hard on myself. I strive to be as perfect as possible, knowing full well that its unrealistic to expect perfection in a avocation this difficult. But, what really bugs me is the veterans who are more concerned with whether they got Regional or state final games. The veterans who are more concerned with "getting a flow" than getting the right call. How many times have you heard the words "call the obvious" in your pregame and then seen a fellow official bypass the whistle so that the game can develop a "flow"?

I have noticed that certain associations have a stronger quality of officials than others. I cringe when I get a partner from one association (fortunately its only been twice this whole year) as I have yet ever seen a good one. So while I don't think its as bad here as other people are saying, it could still be better.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Nate, can you talk about how you helped this young official and made him better? Not to be rude but it seems like, just from this post, that you have spent most of your energy "crawling under the bleachers" and groaning at his mistakes rather than taking a deep breath and creating a teaching opportunity.

We young officials NEED HELP. We can't do it alone. We're gonna make mistakes and if you come after us with a red face and smoke comin' out of your ears, it's not gonna help. Put your arm around us, teach us. Don't just get frustrated with us.

Thanks.

Sorry guys, but I didn't say that he was a young official. This was a guy who has been doing varsity games for about 6 years. The coach ask me why there was no call and all I could say was "I'm not sure coach." At the half, I asked what happened on the play (acting as though I didn't see it) and my partner replied with "they just got tangled up, nothing worthy of a call." I said, "could it possibly have been a trip or push." He replied, "no, are you saying that you think I blew the call." CONVERSATION OVER.

My experience and I would hate to agree with coaches, but most of their complaints are that officials can't and won't admit when they missed a call. When coaches disagree or get on officials many of them take it personal. The guy missed the call. There is nothing wrong with saying "yes coach, I missed that one." To often, and I see this with partners every night, we get defensive and take it as an insult when we are questioned.

I am all for helping the younger officials. I miss my share of calls as well. BUT YOU KNOW WHEN YOU MISS A CALL. Not being able to admit it is where some officias get into trouble. Making bad calls and thinking you made the correct one is how officials get a bad rap. In the situation I just described, my partner left the gym thinking the INCIDENTAL CONTACT from behind isn't a foul. He argued with the coach about the play until he finally had to T the coach. And the sad thing is..........it will be a no call tomorrow night, followed by a T as well.

[Man In Blue]

I wonder- did this coach stop to think that he (and his kind) are responsible for for the lack of officials? The reason there are "new" guys doing games is because he has run off the experenced people. It's not fun working games for coahes like this. They yell on every call and belittle you infront of the whole town.

[tomegun]

I think it is also important to point out some things about coaches.

I don't mind if a coach talks to me (talk being the operative word) and asks me questions about calls to a certain point. I do mind if a coach yells at anyone on the crew, makes borderline comments and displays unsportsmanlike conduct. I've had coaches yelling across the floor at one of my partners (rightfully so) and I told the coach, in a calm voice, that yelling across the floor wasn't going to do anything to help the situation. The coach, who is one of the few good coaches in this area, realized I was right and stopped yelling. I constantly tell them the official will work his/her way around to them in the natural rotation and they can ask the question then.

I have recently been sickened by the conduct of many coaches in the Gulf Coast area. I was recently in DC and got a chance to work a few games. Since I worked the games here then DC and here again I got a chance to compare the players and coaches in a short span of time. Surprisingly, the players in Mississippi can compete with the players in the DC/Maryland area with the exception of the Washington Catholic league. The difference is the coaching. I wouldn't want my kid anywhere near most of the coaches here. They are so concerned about the officials, but they can't teach there kids the fundamentals of the game. They can put on nice suits, but can't make sure there kids are learning how to be responsible on the court.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

I wonder- did this coach stop to think that he (and his kind) are responsible for for the lack of officials? The reason there are "new" guys doing games is because he has run off the experenced people. It's not fun working games for coahes like this. They yell on every call and belittle you infront of the whole town.

I find this very interesting and yet true. This definitely would cause some recruiting issues.

I find it interesting that this coach says we don't call all the pushing and contact, but when we do step up and start calling everything, than this same coach will say we call too much. You can't have it both ways coach!

Personally, I don't like to call a lot of traveling violations. In order to get the marginal travels like what the coach is asking for. That means I got to focus on the players feet. As sure as sh!t, I'm sitting there looking at the feet and miss something obvious right in front of me. Coach would be even madder at me then. Like I said, can't have it both ways. This coach, unfortunately, has a hidden agenda.

[sj]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

...but most of their complaints are that officials can't and won't admit when they missed a call.

The flip side of this is that there are times when the official did not miss the call, but the coach thinks they did. And when the official doesn't admit it to them they interpret that to mean that the official won't admit he's wrong.

We shouldn't admit we're wrong when we aren't. If an official doesn't think he missed one then he cannot be expected to act like he did. We just have to find a professional way to communicate under these circumstances.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by sj

The flip side of this is that there are times when the official did not miss the call, but the coach thinks they did. And when the official doesn't admit it to them they interpret that to mean that the official won't admit he's wrong.

We shouldn't admit we're wrong when we aren't. If an official doesn't think he missed one then he cannot be expected to act like he did. We just have to find a professional way to communicate under these circumstances.

Exactly, of course. Absolutely, if you think you made the right call, then stand strong. That's not what I was alluding to. You hit the nail on the head...the magic word is communication. Most coaches and many officials have no idea how to communicate.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by sj

The flip side of this is that there are times when the official did not miss the call, but the coach thinks they did. And when the official doesn't admit it to them they interpret that to mean that the official won't admit he's wrong.

We shouldn't admit we're wrong when we aren't. If an official doesn't think he missed one then he cannot be expected to act like he did. We just have to find a professional way to communicate under these circumstances.

You are right and I think it is almost mandatory to tell coaches during pregame that you will answer questions, if possible, but you cannot answer every comment.

[Nevadaref]

When I first read this thread yesterday, I wasn't going to bother to respond, but after you continue to spew such nonsense I am compelled to reply.

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Team A who had just stolen the ball was being chased by Team B. Player A was in the act of taking his 1-2 for the lay-up, when he went to the floor hard and the ball rolled out of bounds. Player B stepped on the back of his shoe and they both hit the ground. My partner has::::NOTHING. Team B's ball.

So why you are watching these two players sprint down the court right in front of your partner on a play that you ARE NOT going to make a call on even if you think there is a foul? If you aren't going to help, then you shouldn't be looking there.

Also, who is watching the other eight players who are behind the play while you are ball-hawking your partners play? Someone could have punched someone or clocked an opponent with an elbow and you would have had no clue what happened.

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

The coach ask me why there was no call and all I could say was "I'm not sure coach." At the half, I asked what happened on the play (acting as though I didn't see it) and my partner replied with "they just got tangled up, nothing worthy of a call." I said, "could it possibly have been a trip or push." He replied, "no, are you saying that you think I blew the call." CONVERSATION OVER.

The guy missed the call.

In the situation I just described, my partner left the gym thinking the INCIDENTAL CONTACT from behind isn't a foul.

You partner's explanation sounds pretty good to me. Perhaps that is why he is a six year veteran of varsity ball and you are ....???

It is solely your opinion that he missed the call. Do you call a foul everytime one player steps on another's foot?

Finally, I hate to break it to you, but incidental contact is NEVER a foul, and it doesn't matter from which direction it occurs--the front, the side, or the back. You need to spend more time reading the rules book, especially 4-27 "Incidental contact is contact with an opponent which is permitted and which does not constitute a foul," and less time criticizing your partner's calls.