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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 12:32pm
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Partner calls "bad walk" in my primary

Boys JV. I'm the L. Pass to A1 is caught near baseline 5 ft out of paint on my side. A1 bobbles the ball has he begins to move. Partner calls a walk.

What do you do?
In general, how do you handle a "weak" partner who is obviously making "bad" calls?
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Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 12:36pm
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Same game different call.

A1 bobbles as he falls to the floor. Gains control after hitting the floor and his momentum causes him to slide on butt for 2 feet. Partner calls walk.

Two of many "missed" calls.
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Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 12:38pm
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Well, at the JV level, it sounds like your assignor has put you with a weaker official, and part of your duty at this point is to help train this official. Don't do anything immediately that will embarass him or anything, but when you get a moment during a TO or at halftime, ask him what he had on a particular call. I have even set up a certain signal with some of my less experienced partners before where if something funky or whatever happens, if I give them this signal, it tells them to put that play in their memory bank for later discussion. I'm not out to openly criticize an official on every questionable call or whatever, but I'll often ask the official what they saw that made them call it the way they did, and then explain what I thought I may have seen. It also sounds like you are indicating that he was calling outside his area. Ball watching is often one of the hardest habits to break a new official out of, but it can be done. I often suggest to my partners that if the ball is not in their area, find a specific matchup that IS in their area, and referee it.
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Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 12:44pm
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BT...DT....
Recommend strong pre-game! If it occurs during 1st half....talk about it during half.....after game....review any issues...offer constructive tips....if partner is receptive! If this doen't help.....look for a new partner!

Like golf.....never offer players in your foursome tips....unless they ask for it!
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Old Fri Feb 09, 2007, 12:45pm
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I agree with W&S and the way he suggested telling his partner. I am new to officiating and would appreciate being informed, IYO, if I made the wrong call and if I am not using proper mechanics. We have to learn and grow and this approach could build confidence between the two of you, IMO, if you ref together again.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 03:12pm
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Good Look ?

Would anyone on this Forum suggest that the noncalling official walk over to the calling official and ask him or her "Did you get a good look at that?". If the answer is "Yes", then walk away. If the answer is "No", then discuss it for a few seconds. I'm not suggesting that the noncalling official change the calling official's call, but simply give him or her some information. Maybe, after the information is given, the calling official might want to change their call. I know that this approach is occassionally followed on some out of bounds calls, especially those in which the ball may be slightly tipped. Isn't it important that the two officials, working as a team, get the call right, even if it means communicating information to each other, allowing the calling official to change their mind? This approach should probably be used very rarely, no more than once or twice a season.

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 07:43pm.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 04:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Would anyone on this Forum suggest that the noncalling official walk over to the calling official and ask him or her "Did you get a good look at that?". If the answer is "Yes", then walk away. If the answer is "No", then discuss it for a few seconds. I'm not suggesting that the noncalling official change the calling official's call, but simply give him or her some information. Maybe, after the information is given, the calling official might want to change their call. I know that this approach is occassionally followed on some out of bounds calls, especially those in which the ball may be slightly tipped. Isn't it important that the two officials, working as a team, get the call right, even if it means communicating information to each other, allowing the calling official to change their mind? This approach should probably be used very rarely, no more than once or twice a season.

I was wondering if this was a possibility just last night. Official under the basket called a double dribble violation . What he thought was the offensive player dribbling a second time was in fact a dribble after the defender knocked the ball out of his hands. His view was obstructed. Could not the other officials have approached him quickly and asked "did you see the defender knock the ball out?" Or is that a no-no in officiating?
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2007, 06:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshs81
I was wondering if this was a possibility just last night. Official under the basket called a double dribble violation . What he thought was the offensive player dribbling a second time was in fact a dribble after the defender knocked the ball out of his hands. His view was obstructed. Could not the other officials have approached him quickly and asked "did you see the defender knock the ball out?" Or is that a no-no in officiating?
We don't want it to become the NFL where there is a huddle after every call to get it right. If your partner did not see what happened, he should not be blowing his whistle. At that point it's too late, although you could make a case for blowing your whistle, making a big show, and running over to your partner to correct him.
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Old Sun Feb 11, 2007, 12:14am
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I don't find anything in the OP to suggest this is a new or young official. I actually tend to see this out of guys that have been around a little while rather than the "new" ones. Personally, I'm going to find a time - in the very near future - to tell him to make sure we are staying in our primary areas. I've worked with veteran officials that cannot keep their eyes off of the ball or out of my primary . . . it's not just a "young official" thing.
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Last edited by Mountaineer; Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 01:16pm.
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Old Sun Feb 11, 2007, 10:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes
Well, at the JV level, it sounds like your assignor has put you with a weaker official, and part of your duty at this point is to help train this official. Don't do anything immediately that will embarass him or anything, but when you get a moment during a TO or at halftime, ask him what he had on a particular call. I have even set up a certain signal with some of my less experienced partners before where if something funky or whatever happens, if I give them this signal, it tells them to put that play in their memory bank for later discussion. I'm not out to openly criticize an official on every questionable call or whatever, but I'll often ask the official what they saw that made them call it the way they did, and then explain what I thought I may have seen. It also sounds like you are indicating that he was calling outside his area. Ball watching is often one of the hardest habits to break a new official out of, but it can be done. I often suggest to my partners that if the ball is not in their area, find a specific matchup that IS in their area, and referee it.
This is more helpful than you may realize. Not all veterans are cut out to be mentors. It sounds like you have the right attitude to help us, less experienced officials. It is tough going through the learning experience being attacked from what, at times, seems like all sides.

A personal thanks from one rookie. Keep up the good work.
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Old Sun Feb 11, 2007, 01:30pm
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It's not just rookies that screw up

The other night in a girls varsity game as time was winding down, team A scored a basket and signaled a time-out. I did not see the signal, but my partner did and granted it, AFTER team B had already inbounded the ball. When he saw where the ball was, he quickly "corrected" himself, said "No time out!" and pointed to award the ball back to team B on the endline. I thought that was what had happened, but did not think it was in the best interest of the game to shoot him down, no matter how subtly. I also thought at the time that perhaps he really had misunderstood and that there was no time-out signaled at all. When I got a chance later I asked and he confirmed my original suspicion that he had granted the timeout without realizing where the ball was. I told him that the rule was that the time-out, once granted, was allowed, even if granted improperly. He replied, "Oh, is that what it says in the book?" I think he believed me, but was totally unconcerned about the whole thing.

Would anyone else have stepped up to question this call as it happened?
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Old Sun Feb 11, 2007, 04:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
The other night in a girls varsity game as time was winding down, team A scored a basket and signaled a time-out. I did not see the signal, but my partner did and granted it, AFTER team B had already inbounded the ball. When he saw where the ball was, he quickly "corrected" himself, said "No time out!" and pointed to award the ball back to team B on the endline. I thought that was what had happened, but did not think it was in the best interest of the game to shoot him down, no matter how subtly. I also thought at the time that perhaps he really had misunderstood and that there was no time-out signaled at all. When I got a chance later I asked and he confirmed my original suspicion that he had granted the timeout without realizing where the ball was. I told him that the rule was that the time-out, once granted, was allowed, even if granted improperly. He replied, "Oh, is that what it says in the book?" I think he believed me, but was totally unconcerned about the whole thing.

Would anyone else have stepped up to question this call as it happened?
If it were a close game - yes, I would have allowed the time-out and made him grant it . . . if it's a game where everyone is ready to leave and the coach really wasn't thinking - then get the ball back in bounds as quickly as you can!
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