"At the Disposal"

[BoomerSooner]

We've had a number of questions about when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower after a made basket with regard to the timeout issue, but I'm going a different direction. Situtation: After A made a basket to bring the score to 55-56 with roughly 10-11 seconds to go, B just looks at the ball and doesn't make an attempt to pick it up to inbound it. I clicks into my mind that A isn't calling a TO because they don't have any, and I had a weird flashback to HS where I remember my coach instructing us not to even inbound the ball in a situation where we had the lead with less than 5 seconds. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that B had been coached to drain away enough time to put themselves in the same situation. I blew the whistle and ruled that the ball had "gotten away" from B. Now B is inbounding with 8 seconds on the clock instead of letting it run down. B's coach is furious because the ball hadn't gotten away, and I've now let A set their defense and more importantly stopped the clock. A's coach is quite happy with the situation. It didn't have any impact on the final score as B was able to inbound the ball, A fouled, B made both shots, and A missed a 3 pointer, got a tap in and the clock expired after the tap.

After the game, my partner suggested that I should have just started my 5 second count as the ball was close to the endline and could have easily been picked up by B. Both of us were against using a delay of game type penalty, so we narrowed it down to what I did or using a 5 second count. Are we missing something in the rules with regard to this? If not how would you guys handle the situation?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

We've had a number of questions about when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower after a made basket with regard to the timeout issue, but I'm going a different direction. Situtation: After A made a basket to bring the score to 55-56 with roughly 10-11 seconds to go, B just looks at the ball and doesn't make an attempt to pick it up to inbound it. I clicks into my mind that A isn't calling a TO because they don't have any, and I had a weird flashback to HS where I remember my coach instructing us not to even inbound the ball in a situation where we had the lead with less than 5 seconds. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that B had been coached to drain away enough time to put themselves in the same situation. I blew the whistle and ruled that the ball had "gotten away" from B. Now B is inbounding with 8 seconds on the clock instead of letting it run down. B's coach is furious because the ball hadn't gotten away, and I've now let A set their defense and more importantly stopped the clock. A's coach is quite happy with the situation. It didn't have any impact on the final score as B was able to inbound the ball, A fouled, B made both shots, and A missed a 3 pointer, got a tap in and the clock expired after the tap.

After the game, my partner suggested that I should have just started my 5 second count as the ball was close to the endline and could have easily been picked up by B. Both of us were against using a delay of game type penalty, so we narrowed it down to what I did or using a 5 second count. Are we missing something in the rules with regard to this? If not how would you guys handle the situation?

4-4-7 . . . A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
...
d. Available to a player after a goal.

4-42-3 . . . The throw-in and the throw-in count begin when the ball is at the disposal of a player of the team entitled to it.


Sounds to me like the ball was available to a player of Team B after the goal, thus I would have started the throw-in count as your partner suggested.

[Scrapper1]

I'm with Nevadaref. Start the count. I remember this happening in an NCAA game a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago. It was either the NCAA tournament or the Big East tournament, because the player involved was Chris Mullen of St. John's. After the opponent scored near the end of the game, Mullen was slow to pick up the ball for the throw-in and then kicked the ball away from himself toward the seats. The kick looked intentional and the official started the 5-second count, resulting in a violation.

[Camron Rust]

Agree...just start the count. They have the right to consume 5 seconds if they chose. By stopping it at 8 you unfairly penalized the throwing team.

[Red_Killian]

Start the count....if you would have thought this all the way through and started the count at the appropriate time B might have been penalized with a 5 second throw-in violation. That would have surely taught them to REALLY understand the rules.

[mick]

I agree with just starting the count, making sure it is seen [at shoulder level and up] so the throw-in team has no premise for acting stoopid.

I have seen and heard some college officials give an easily heard "One!" and sometimes a "One! Two!". I don't know if that is an approved or suggested mechanic or not, but I do not care for it. ...Why would you have to coddle college athletes ? Why pamper High school athletes ?

[Rusty Gilbert]

I agree with starting the count. Very visibly!!!

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gilbert

I agree with starting the count. Very visibly!!!

would that include the useage of this...

[Mark Padgett]

Absolutely, positively this was the wrong thing to do. Start the five count. Don't artificially attempt to influence the outcome of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mick

I agree with just starting the count, making sure it is seen [at shoulder level and up] so the throw-in team has no premise for acting stoopid.

I have seen and heard some college officials give an easily heard "One!" and sometimes a "One! Two!". I don't know if that is an approved or suggested mechanic or not, but I do not care for it. ...Why would you have to coddle college athletes ? Why pamper High school athletes ?

Counting out loud is not proper.
NFHS
2-7-9 . . . Silently and visibly counting seconds to administer the throw-in (7-6), free-throw (8-4; 9-1-3), backcourt (9-8) and closely-guarded (9-10) rules.

NCAA
Rule 2, Section 9

Art. 9.

(Men) Silently and visibly count seconds to administer throw-in,
free-throw, back-court, and closely guarded rules and silently count for
enforcement of the three-second rule.

Art. 10.

(Women) Silently count seconds to administer the free-throw and
three-seconds rules and visibly count seconds to administer the throw-in and
closely guarded (when holding the ball) rules.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Counting out loud is not proper.
NFHS
2-7-9 . . . Silently and visibly counting seconds to administer the throw-in (7-6), free-throw (8-4; 9-1-3), backcourt (9-8) and closely-guarded (9-10) rules.

NCAA
Rule 2, Section 9

Art. 9.

(Men) Silently and visibly count seconds to administer throw-in,

free-throw, back-court, and closely guarded rules and silently count for
enforcement of the three-second rule.

Art. 10.

(Women) Silently count seconds to administer the free-throw and

three-seconds rules and visibly count seconds to administer the throw-in and
closely guarded (when holding the ball) rules.

Thanks, Nevada.
Yet, I am left to wonder whether any clinicians/assignors/supervisors recommend the practice.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mick

Thanks, Nevada.
Yet, I am left to wonder whether any clinicians/assignors/supervisors recommend the practice.

I would expect clinicians to teach the officials to enforce the rules properly. I haven't come across any that instruct counting verbally, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some out there who are doing it.
Whenever we encounter one of our HS officials who has picked up this habit from somewhere, we explain to him why he shouldn't be doing that. Usually, it is just a matter of the official having never been told not to count out loud.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mick

Yet, I am left to wonder whether any clinicians/assignors/supervisors recommend the practice.

I've never run into anyone that recommends doing that, Mick. The main reason is, as you alluded, that you're aiding the throwing team by doing that by letting them know where they are in the count.

I'm with you. I don't care for anyone using that one either.