Flagrant on Coach or not ?

[hbioteach]

Fourth quarter. Coach of team A comes on court and yells, "How could you not call that foul." Technical Foul. After reporting the T, coach yells, "Yor're awful!" Second T, gone.

Here's the question. Is either act considered Flagrant?

New Jersey requires disqualification form for flagrant acts, Thoughts?

[Scrapper1]

I would think that you'd want to fill out the form for the ejection, even if neither T was originally ruled flagrant.

[Hartsy]

Sounds a bit like the coach I had last night. He took exception to the no call I had on his end, that followed up with a foul on his player at the other end. He was going nuts from the no call all the way through my reporting of the foul. He was quiet after the Technical I assessed.

I didn't deem any of it flagrant. Had he gotten a second T, Ohio requires paperwork to be filed anyhow, so unless it was so flagrant I run him to the locker room after the first one, it doesn't change anythng for me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Fourth quarter. Coach of team A comes on court and yells, "How could you not call that foul." Technical Foul. After reporting the T, coach yells, "Yor're awful!" Second T, gone.

Here's the question. Is either act considered Flagrant?

New Jersey requires disqualification form for flagrant acts, Thoughts?

Run-of-the-mill Unsporting T's against the coach. Neither is flagrant in my opinion (unless maybe if he ran all the way out to the middle of the court when you say "comes on court")

But your judgement of whether or not it was flagrant should no way be influenced by the fact you have to fill out forms.

[Vinski]

Well, I might be a little more tolerant than I should be, but base on what I’ve read, I’m not sure I would have called a “T” on the first encounter at all. Basketball is an intense, high emotion game. I’ll bet everyone in the gym was yelling at that point. Especially in the 4th quarter if it’s tight. A simple “How could you call that foul.” seems pretty harmless. Now, if he was deep into the court and 2 inches from your face when he yelled that or has been belligerent all game and you had had enough, it would be a different story.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Vinski

Well, I might be a little more tolerant than I should be, but base on what I’ve read, I’m not sure I would have called a “T” on the first encounter at all. Basketball is an intense, high emotion game. I’ll bet everyone in the gym was yelling at that point. Especially in the 4th quarter if it’s tight.

Got any more excuses to not call the "T"?

You are way more tolerant than any official should be. Allowing a coach to come out on the floor and yell complaints at you sureasheck isn't gonna help the next crew in there. They're gonna have to clean up your mess. Emotions, no matter how high they are, have got nothing to do with it either. Ever. And if you worrying about whether the crowd was yelling or not, then you should be sitting in the crowd instead of being out on the court. What the crowd is doing also is never a factor when it comes to making any call.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but imo you really, really need to learn to take care of bidness during a game. If you don't, they'll eventually run you right off the court.

[Ignats75]

Hartsy,

WHere are you in Ohio?

[Vinski]

My, my, I’ve been schooled. Thank you, Mr. JR. For what it’s worth, though, I have no problem ringing a coach up when needed. But I am not going to “T” him if he just takes a couple of steps on the floor and yells a complaint (within reason) when I go by. If there is more to this story that I have missed, then I concede. I don’t look for excuses to not give a T, but I certainly don’t look for excused to give em either.

[Ignats75]

VInsky,

Your job is to enforce the rules fairly. If you allow a coach to come on the floor to protest the call, you are giving that coach an unfair advantage as well as giving him a chance to show you and your partner up. No excuse not to whack him.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Hartsy,

WHere are you in Ohio?

Work in and around Marion. Delaware County, Morrow County, Union County, Hardin County, and yeah, Marion County.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Fourth quarter. Coach of team A comes on court and yells, "How could you not call that foul." Technical Foul. After reporting the T, coach yells, "Yor're awful!" Second T, gone.

Why did he get the first T? Did the coach do anything other than just ask why a foul was not called? Did he yell it across the court? Did he jump up and down several times? Did he throw his jacket or knock over the Gatorade container? Was he complaining the rest of the game? On the surface I do not see why the first comment required a T in the first place. If that is what he said, I know I would have a T every single game. I would have had an ejection of both coaches if that is all it takes.

Originally Posted by hbioteach

Here's the question. Is either act considered Flagrant?

New Jersey requires disqualification form for flagrant acts, Thoughts?

On the surface neither is flagrant without knowing more information. You would have to eject the coach if you gave him/her two Ts though. That is something you have to decide on your own how bad these acts are.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Very early in my career, I was told at a clinic, that the 5th foul on any player was "flagrant," because it resulted in the DQ of the player, therefore meeting the definition of a "flagrant" foul. How stupid is THAT?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Very early in my career, I was told at a clinic, that the 5th foul on any player was "flagrant," because it resulted in the DQ of the player, therefore meeting the definition of a "flagrant" foul. How stupid is THAT?

That used to be true for a team member's second T. Regardless of the nature of the second T, it was by definition flagrant. That got removed a few years ago.

I can't remember if it was also true for a 5th personal foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why did he get the first T? Did the coach do anything other than just ask why a foul was not called? Did he yell it across the court? Did he jump up and down several times? Did he throw his jacket or knock over the Gatorade container? Was he complaining the rest of the game? On the surface I do not see why the first comment required a T in the first place.

You forgot to ask above if the coach was out on the court yelling at the official. The answer to that is "yes" according to the original post.

I thought that they frowned on coaches being out their box, coming out onto the court and yelling at officials in Illinois. Guess I was wrong. Musta been another state.

[deecee]

some officials definiton of coming ON the court could be one foot just to ask the question -- and yells could be louder than normal -- but I do not see with this info why the T was called. I agree with Jrut here -- there has to be more to justify a T in this case -- did the coach come runing on the court 4, 6 even 10 feet out to make a scene or was he one or two steps on the court and just asked that question.

because like JRut said I would have 2 ejected coaches every game by half time if not the first quarter.