...so I ran him...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't know if you did a disservice to the game or not? I only know what you wrote. Did you not describe it well? I don't know that either. All I can go on is what you wrote. "lots and lots of fouls that we passed on because the clock was ticking on toward the next game. Both coaches complaining about the no-calls about equally."

Do you want to know what that sounds like? You ignored a lot of calls because you wanted the game to be over. Coaches complained, you ignored more, until finally, one of them snapped. You know what? I would have snapped, too.

Now, hopefully that isn't what happened, but I think that's how it came across to most of us.

Well, it is what happened and it isn't. The "lots and lots of fouls" part meant little fouls, touch fouls, borderline stuff. I should have worded that differently. I should have said, "It was a rough, ugly game with a lot of unskilled physical play."

The coaches complained because they didn't have a clue about the situation. They were the type of people who would have complained, "For Pete's sake, let 'em play!" if we'd have called the things they wanted called. It wasn't so rough that anyone got hurt.

My big question at this point is how and when to adjust the "my game" thing. If I had known ahead of time how the situation would be, I probably would have tried to weasel out of the games, somehow. I hate those kinds of tournaments, and I don't like what they do to my morning! Still, there I was. I can't just walk out, can I? If my primary purpose is to help out a friend, does it make sense to make his whole morning miserable? "My game" can include "letting 'em play", I've been working on that. I'm not a compulsive tight-azz about calling unskilled hacks and bumps that don't really have much contact and don't really affect play. Learning to "hold my whistle" is one of my accomplishments in the last year or so. When does it become selling out, to stretch that out a little further?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

My big question at this point is how and when to adjust the "my game" thing.

I say don't adjust to something you don't feel comfortable with. I adjusted my game one time this season to fit my partner's play-calling and it turned into a wretched game, IMO.

There's a difference between letting skilled players play through marginal fouls in a high-level all-star game or off-season tournament as opposed to watching 12 & 13 year-old boys and girls turn a basketball game into a modern day version of "smear the queer".

The success of the "let 'em play" philosophy usually has a direct correlation to the skill level of the players. The better the players, the easier it is to "let 'em play".

[lpneck]

I think all the arguing over what you did or did not call is a little silly. As long as you were consistent, I don't think the coaches have a complaint.

I think I have a bigger issue with running the coach on the first technical foul. I know that you say you felt threatened and deemed his action flagrant, but if that was the case, with all of the complaining that you say he was doing earlier in the game, I feel like there had to be an opportunity to give him a T somewhere along the way before you ran him.

That would have either put a stop to it and made your game better, or made the ejection a very easy decision if it didn't.

[deecee]

i see where rain is coming from -- like JR said -- its 7th grade boys -- there is a very good chance that the game is sloppy and judging advantage/disadvantage over crap/crappier play is tough. in a blowout we tend to get even more lenient because WE dont want to drag it out -- thats real world application of officiating. Call the obvious all the time and let the crap just settle to the bottom.

I have not problem running a 7th grade coach over what was described -- remember put it in perspective 7th grade basketball. not the League chapionship versus 2 nationally ranked teams.

**if you are going to comment on this post please leave all PC and moral comments at home (remember I DONT care about the kids) -- I am not about to have another debate on that line -- what i said above is the reality of the situation and you cannot change my belief in that**

And rain -- always call the game you feel most comfortable calling -- if they dont like it they dont have to offer you more games. And you shouldnt want to work there any more.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

Do you still write an article for the paid portion of this site? Thanks for reminding me again why I don't subscribe to that. While the humor many of my officiating friends and I find in posts like this may be worth a few bucks, in the long run, the complete disregard for and misapplication of the game surely won't make me a better official.

Carry on rant.

Wow...nothing like being judgemental to start off the week on a good note.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by deecee

i see where rain is coming from -- like JR said -- its 7th grade boys -- there is a very good chance that the game is sloppy and judging advantage/disadvantage over crap/crappier play is tough. in a blowout we tend to get even more lenient because WE dont want to drag it out -- thats real world application of officiating. Call the obvious all the time and let the crap just settle to the bottom.

I have not problem running a 7th grade coach over what was described -- remember put it in perspective 7th grade basketball. not the League chapionship versus 2 nationally ranked teams.

**if you are going to comment on this post please leave all PC and moral comments at home (remember I DONT care about the kids) -- I am not about to have another debate on that line -- what i said above is the reality of the situation and you cannot change my belief in that**

And rain -- always call the game you feel most comfortable calling -- if they dont like it they dont have to offer you more games. And you shouldnt want to work there any more.

When Rut supported me, I had a shadow of a doubt, but now that you do too, deecee, I'm seriously reconsidering my position. Could I be sliding over to the flipside?!?!

note smilie, just kidding, no offense intended!

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by chrs_schuster

I try to stay as far away of those games as humanly possible. I did those games earlier in my career and I almost quite reffing because of it.

Ditto for me.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I raaaannnn......I ran so fa awwaaayyyyy........I just raaannn, I could not get aawwwaayyy...........I couldn't get away.

If you remember, you are likely old.

Peace

Flock of Seagulls. Not as old as Del Shannon's "Runaway", LOL, but old enough.

BTW, Rainmaker, I knew what you meant. You weren't letting fouls go uncalled, you were letting incidental contacts go uncalled. LOL.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

My big question at this point is how and when to adjust the "my game" thing. If I had known ahead of time how the situation would be, I probably would have tried to weasel out of the games, somehow. I hate those kinds of tournaments, and I don't like what they do to my morning! Still, there I was. I can't just walk out, can I? If my primary purpose is to help out a friend, does it make sense to make his whole morning miserable? "My game" can include "letting 'em play", I've been working on that. I'm not a compulsive tight-azz about calling unskilled hacks and bumps that don't really have much contact and don't really affect play. Learning to "hold my whistle" is one of my accomplishments in the last year or so. When does it become selling out, to stretch that out a little further?

If it's that big of a deal, just go to the guy and tell him. "look, I know we want to get out of here but this is getting to rough. let's tighten it up, shall we?" Then, even if he doesn't, he knows where you stand.

Clumsy is not a foul. But when they get clumsy, you've really got to work hard to make sure the real fouls get called.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If it's that big of a deal, just go to the guy and tell him. "look, I know we want to get out of here but this is getting to rough. let's tighten it up, shall we?" Then, even if he doesn't, he knows where you stand.

Clumsy is not a foul. But when they get clumsy, you've really got to work hard to make sure the real fouls get called.

Yea, that's a good sentence, "Let's tighten it up, shall we?"

One thing I did say that helped: Early in the 4th quarter, a player was complaining, "They're pushing!" I said, "Well, stand somewhere else, so they can't." That player got the next three rebounds, two defensive and one offensive. He sort of helped his team pull out from the key, and play a little more cleanly. They ended up winning by around 20.