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-   -   What the heck do you call???? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30812-what-heck-do-you-call.html)

Adam Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Also, the OP doesn't say whether the ball did or didn't go into B's basket before the horn. It says the foul was after the shot before the horn. Because of the double dribble, it doesn't matter. But suppose the double dribble hadn't happend, such as if A3 had grabbed the "rebound" and shot and been fouled by B. Then if the ball went in before the horn, it would count, even though the foul wouldn't be on the shot. How's that for confusing?
Juulie,
The foul makes the ball dead, so even if the clock stopped in time, or if the ball went in before the horn, there's no points because of the foul.

jmaellis Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kycat1
:confused: You make the call (this actually happened in a state tournament game)!

Team A down by 1 point with 5 seconds in the game. Both teams in the bonus. OOB throw end on sideline in A’s backcourt after time out. A1 throws to A2 who is confused and dribbles to the wrong basket and puts up a shot that hits the backboard and then rebounds off of the rim. A2 then jumps up, grabs the rebound and starts to shoot the ball again at the wrong basket.
B1, thinking A2 is about to score, jumps up to block the shot and fouls A2 after the ball leaves A2 hands but before the horn goes off to end the game. Then the ball goes through the basket after the horn.
Yes, all of this happened within the last 5 seconds of the game. Both coaches, all players and all fans are screaming excitedly.
What do you call? :confused:
You have just a few seconds to get your crew together and decide. No rule books on the floor.
I'll post the crews correct decision next Monday!:D
Several of the replies to this thread indicate that the second shot was "not a legitimate shot attempt." Will someone take a few moments to explain to me why the shot attempt is not legitimate. It seems to me, based on the OP "A2 then jumps up, grabs the rebound and starts to shoot the ball again..." that A2 was trying to make a basket (albeit in the wrong hoop). So I don't understand why the shot attempt was not legitimate.

Thanks for the help.

Back In The Saddle Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmaellis
Several of the replies to this thread indicate that the second shot was "not a legitimate shot attempt." Will someone take a few moments to explain to me why the shot attempt is not legitimate. It seems to me, based on the OP "A2 then jumps up, grabs the rebound and starts to shoot the ball again..." that A2 was trying to make a basket (albeit in the wrong hoop). So I don't understand why the shot attempt was not legitimate.

Thanks for the help.
It has to do with the definition of a try:

Rule 4 - SECTION 41 SHOOTING, TRY, TAP
ART. 2 . . . A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team's own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player's hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

While it's true that two points would be scored for B if A1 successfully put the ball into their basket, it is not, by definition, a try. Since it is not a try, several common rules don't apply, like the ball remaining alive after a foul on the shooter, continuous motion, and even a three point goal.

That make sense?

jmaellis Tue Jan 23, 2007 02:41am
BITS, that helps, thanks.

I'm thinking through why a goal made in the wrong basket from behind the 3 point line wouldn't count for three points, since an illegitimate shot inside the 3 point arc counts for two. Is it because in order for the three to count it has to be a legitimate try?

Back In The Saddle Tue Jan 23, 2007 03:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmaellis
BITS, that helps, thanks.

I'm thinking through why a goal made in the wrong basket from behind the 3 point line wouldn't count for three points, since an illegitimate shot inside the 3 point arc counts for two. Is it because in order for the three to count it has to be a legitimate try?
ART. 1 . . . A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown. See 4-5-4.

jmaellis Tue Jan 23, 2007 03:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
ART. 1 . . . A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown. See 4-5-4.
Thanks, I appreciat the response.

Damian Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:33pm
Double dribble?
 
If A2 dribbled down to the wrong goal to shoot, then shoots at the wrong goal and hits the backboard or rim, then catches the ball, thats a double dribble. This happens before any of the other stuff.

If A2 did not dribble, but took a jump shot at the wrong goal, then caught it, that would be a travel.

Jimgolf Tue Jan 23, 2007 01:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian
This might be the first time someone's actually misspelled their own name on this forum!

swkansasref33 Tue Jan 23, 2007 06:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHtown
Ok...she dribbled, took a shot at the opponent's basket, then got the rebound. Something in the back of my mind says that's a double dribble.
Isnt it only a double dribble if the ball DOES NOT touch the rim?

Say A1 dribbles, then shoots a 3. Ball bounces off rim back to A1, who drives to the hoop and makes a layup? What's the call?:confused:

Camron Rust Tue Jan 23, 2007 06:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swkansasref33
Isnt it only a double dribble if the ball DOES NOT touch the rim?

Say A1 dribbles, then shoots a 3. Ball bounces off rim back to A1, who drives to the hoop and makes a layup? What's the call?:confused:
Irrelavant. By definition it is not even a shot since it is at the wrong basket. Player catches ball after dribbling, throws the ball up in the air towards the opponents goal (may or may not hit the backboard or rim) then catches the ball. You've got one of two things: a travel (if it didn't hit anything) or an illegal dribble (if it did hit).

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 23, 2007 06:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swkansasref33
Isnt it only a double dribble if the ball DOES NOT touch the rim?

Say A1 dribbles, then shoots a 3. Ball bounces off rim back to A1, who drives to the hoop and makes a layup? What's the call?:confused:
Illegal dribble as soon as A1 caught the rebound of the missed 3. Read case book play 4.15.4SitC(a).

swkansasref33 Tue Jan 23, 2007 07:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Illegal dribble as soon as A1 caught the rebound of the missed 3. Read case book play 4.15.4SitC(a).
thanks.. ill get on it

jmaellis Wed Jan 24, 2007 01:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Illegal dribble as soon as A1 caught the rebound of the missed 3. Read case book play 4.15.4SitC(a).
Does it matter if the shot at the opponents basket does not hit the backboard, and only hits the rim? A1 shoots at the opponent's basket, the shot rebounds off of the edge of the rim and is caught by A1. I'm asking because the rule only mentions the backboard.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jan 24, 2007 06:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmaellis
Does it matter if the <font color = red>shot</font> at the opponents basket does not hit the backboard, and only hits the rim?
No, because it's not a "shot". It's considered a "dribble".

Camron Rust Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
No, because it's not a "shot". It's considered a "dribble".
Except that his point was to ask whether its a dribble if it doesn't hit the backboard but only the rim (or perhaps nothing at all....an airball). Is the rim considered part of the backboard for the purposes of this rule or is the rim simply another object floating in space? If the latter (or it was an airball), you can't have illegal dribble but you could have traveling.


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