point discrepancy

[Putty]

Freshman tournament, I am T partner is L. Play occurs on his side. Girl shoots. I assume that it is a 3, because I see his arm go up as if to give prelim. signal. I give the "it's good signal" and head down court. I am not sure how much time went by, maybe 35 seconds, the table buzzes us over. The visiting coach wants and explanation on the shot. She swears that one of us gave a two signal and the other a three. As it turned out the L could not remember the shot or any part of the play. He said since there was doubt between the two of us we had to count it as a two. This after granting the shooting team three points on that particular shot. My question is did we handle it correctly.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Putty

As it turned out the L could not remember the shot or any part of the play...

Not a good omen

What did the scorekeeper remember seeing as the signal? If she saw your 3 signal and nothing from your partner to contradict it then I say you stick with the 3 since there is no definite knowlege that you could use to change the basket to a 2.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Putty

This after granting the shooting team three points on that particular shot. My question is did we handle it correctly.

If you left the 3 pts up there you did.

[JRutledge]

Well this is a correctable error situation under Rule 2-10-1e. You cannot change the score if the time frame has past (it is likely with 35 seconds passing, but it is not very clear). So if you awarded a point that should not have been awarded, it is too late to go back at any time and change that. If this was a simple scorekeeper mistake it could be changed at anytime. The scorekeeper only put up points that you told them to. I am sure there might be some debate about this, but I do not think you can go back and change it after the time frame as elapsed.

Peace

[bgleason@neonin]

I would prod your partner to think back hard. Did he or she signal for a good 3 in the past few minutes? If he or she can't remeber that, you have bigger problems that the one point in discussion.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well this is a correctable error situation under Rule 2-10-1e. You cannot change the score if the time frame has past (it is likely with 35 seconds passing, but it is not very clear). So if you awarded a point that should not have been awarded, it is too late to go back at any time and change that. If this was a simple scorekeeper mistake it could be changed at anytime. The scorekeeper only put up points that you told them to. I am sure there might be some debate about this, but I do not think you can go back and change it after the time frame as elapsed.

Peace

Not a correctable error. This is something that the officials can correct at any time during the game - based upon their rememberances. If the officials know a shot was a 2 or 3 they can fix that.

On the call in question, if the lead has a 3 attempt and it goes in it's not the T's call to count it. You mirror the L's signal. I think the T was wrong in signalling anything when the ball went in unless the L signaled first. The T mirrors the call the L does not mirror the T's signal (if that makes sense).

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Not a correctable error. This is something that the officials can correct at any time during the game - based upon their rememberances. If the officials know a shot was a 2 or 3 they can fix that.

On the call in question, if the lead has a 3 attempt and it goes in it's not the T's call to count it. You mirror the L's signal. I think the T was wrong in signalling anything when the ball went in unless the L signaled first. The T mirrors the call the L does not mirror the T's signal (if that makes sense).

jRut has it right here,this is a correctable error, not a bookeeping error. In the situation at hand it was signalled a three and the book scored it a three, then the coach wants to correct it. If the proper sequence of ball going dead and then coming back live (and time off clock) it is too late to correct any mistake. This was not a bookeeping error that can be corrected anythime during the game.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by Putty

She swears that one of us gave a two signal and the other a three. As it turned out the L could not remember the shot or any part of the play. He said since there was doubt between the two of us we had to count it as a two. This after granting the shooting team three points on that particular shot. My question is did we handle it correctly.

What is a Two Signal?

[mjbofficial]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

What is a Two Signal?

If it's close, I'll point to the table with 2 fingers.

[Ref Daddy]

Originally Posted by mjbofficial

If it's close, I'll point to the table with 2 fingers.

That might be the source of the coach's confusion. That is not an NFHS mechanic and not everyone does it. Here anyway. We were warned in a clinic to try and avoid it.

If you must, or choose to signal two's, do it discreetly after traveling down court and not right at the point the bll is released.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

That might be the source of the coach's confusion. That is not an NFHS mechanic and not everyone does it. Here anyway. We were warned in a clinic to try and avoid it.

If you must, or choose to signal two's, do it discreetly after traveling down court and not right at the point the bll is released.

NFHS Annual bulletin put out in 2005 says to blow your whistle and signal "2" to the scorer's table.

[BillyMac]

I'm not sure that this situation falls under the time frame guidelines of the correctable error. It may be a clerical error situation, which can be corrected until the officials leave the confines of the gymnasium at the end of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

That might be the source of the coach's confusion. That is not an NFHS mechanic and not everyone does it. Here anyway. We were warned in a clinic to try and avoid it.

If you must, or choose to signal two's, do it discreetly after traveling down court and not right at the point the bll is released.

I thought that the covering official was to indicate two points when there was doubt as to whether the try was a two or a three. I don't recall where I read this, perhaps in the Officials Manual. Someone will come along and post the reference, if it exists.

Otherwise, my only comment in this thread is that Rut is correct. This is a correctable error situation. It is for erroneously counting or cancelling a score. There are even case book plays which say so.


2.10.1 SITUATION F: A1 attempts a goal from behind the three-point line: (a) but the covering official fails to give the successful signal after the ball goes through the basket, and the scorer records only two points; or (b) and the covering official gives the successful signal, but the scorer records only two points. Team B inbounds the ball and proceeds to score. The coach of Team A goes to the table and requests a 60-second time-out to discuss the error. RULING: In (a), the error of not awarding three points is correctable as it was detected prior to the second live ball after the error. The extra point is scored, the 60-second time-out is not charged and the game continues from the point of interruption. In (b), it is a mistake by the scorer which can be corrected any time until the final score has been approved.

2.10.1 SITUATION G: A1 jumps and releases a try for goal apparently from behind the three-point line. The try is successful. The covering official does not indicate a three-point try and does not signal three points after the goal. The Team A coach rushes to the table and requests a 60-second time-out to discuss a correctable error. It is determined neither official clearly observed A1's location before he/she jumped to try. RULING: No change can be made and two points are properly scored. The 60-second time-out remains charged to Team A. (5-8-4)

[mplagrow]

I don't think this is a matter of whether it's correctable or not. I think the issue is that there's no direct knowledge whether it's a 3 or a 2. In that case, go with what's called and play on.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Putty

the table buzzes us over. The visiting coach wants and explanation on the shot. She swears that one of us gave a two signal and the other a three.

At this point, I am grabbing my partner for a private conference. If we disagree, or my partner has forgotten everything, nobody will know it but us. If we get to talking and my partner can't remember it, I'm going back to the table and saying "A three was called, a three it is," and selling it.