What's the Point?

tarheelcoach · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:07pm

First off, I'm an upset coach, I'll let you know that up front!

I'm looking for the official's viewpoint here, because I guess I'm missing something.

Situation - middle school game - 43-42 visitors with 17 seconds left. We are the home team. We give the foul to put the visitor's on the line, when the ref comes over and gives the sign for a T. I ask for an explanation and this what I get - "Your assistant stood up during the play - that's a technical."

Opposing player hits two free throws, we miss 2 3pt. attempts at the end, and lose 45-42.

Why in the world would the ref make that call in that situation?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:10pm

Why was your asst. coach standing up?

Dan_ref · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:13pm

Why did your players miss 2 shots to win the game?

zebra44 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:51pm

Why are we jumping on this coach? Do you think an assistant standing is worth deciding a game on? Let the players determine who wins.

Dan_ref · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebra44
Why are we jumping on this coach? Do you think an assistant standing is worth deciding a game on? Let the players determine who wins.

The players did determine the winner.

The coach's team had 2 opportunities to tie or win.

tarheelcoach · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 09:57pm

I'm asking for an official's point of view - is there any reasoning behind this call? The assistant didn't even speak to the refs - he was telling our PG to give the foul.

I never said we didn't have our chances - but the call obviously affected the game.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 10:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
I'm asking for an official's point of view - is there any reasoning behind this call? The assistant didn't even speak to the refs - he was telling our PG to give the foul.

I never said we didn't have our chances - but the call obviously affected the game.

Coach:

I won't be the first official to tell you that I don't go looking for assistant coaches who are standing when they are not supposed to be standing. So I have to ask you a few questions.

1) Had a member of your bench personel (including you) already received a technical foul earlier in the game?

2) Whether that answer to #1 is yes or no, was your assistant caoch addressing the officials in a manner that could be described as unsportsmanlike?

MTD, Sr.

Dan_ref · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 10:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
I'm asking for an official's point of view - is there any reasoning behind this call? The assistant didn't even speak to the refs - he was telling our PG to give the foul.

I never said we didn't have our chances - but the call obviously affected the game.

Every call effects the game.

tjones1 · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 10:19pm

Maybe the official considered the instuctions unsporting since he was telling them to foul (intentionally). Might be a little extreme, just offering another idea.

Back In The Saddle · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 10:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebra44
Why are we jumping on this coach? Do you think an assistant standing is worth deciding a game on? Let the players determine who wins.

I'm not sure we're getting the whole story here. Sure, you occassionally see a traffic cop type official who just lives to find this kind of stuff. But I'm guessing that there were issues with this coach, assistant or bench earlier in the game.

I will say this, coach: There are things you can control and things you can't. The behavior of your assistants is one you can, and should control. Regardless of why the official made this call, and whether or not it should have been made, you can keep it from happening ever again by maintaining stricter control over your assistants.

SF · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 10:42pm

Had he been warned earlier in the game to stay seated? That would make more sense.

Although if an assistant coach was standing JUST to instruct a player to stop the clock at the end of a close game, I would most likely not give a T, he still shouldn't be standing. If the standing is so necessary, why aren't you doing it?

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 25, 2005, 11:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Sure, you occassionally see a traffic cop type official who just lives to find this kind of stuff.

It is at least possible that this is what happened. Especially in middle school, you'll be getting these kinds of folks who are inexperienced and haven't really learned to give a little here and there. Coach, my suggestion would be to let the assignor handle the ref. Let the assignor know what happened, but don't complain or rag. Really just information. If the assignor asks questions, answer them honestly, but don't give any other issues from that game. Just, "Hey, Fred, just so's you know..."

It would be interesting to know if there were other issues going on.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 26, 2005, 12:45am

Coach, while I can't say whether or not I'd have made the call (I probably wouldn't have even noticed him since I pay far too little attention to coaches), I will say that the official was correct by rule. It's tough to question the call made by an official when a) he was right by rule; and b) we weren't there to see the rest of the game (context).
Obviously, the suggestion would be to make sure your assistants know the rule and to keep a tight reign on your bench.

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 26, 2005, 02:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Quote:

Originally posted by zebra44
Why are we jumping on this coach? Do you think an assistant standing is worth deciding a game on? Let the players determine who wins.

I'm not sure we're getting the whole story here.

I'm sure that we're not getting the whole story on this one. We're not getting the official's side obviously. In these types of arguments, often the stories from the opposing sides end up bearing little resemblance to each other. Peronally, I don't think that you can answer the coach's questions except very generally until you do hear what the official had to say.

tarheelcoach · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 26, 2005, 06:41am

As far as history goes, the ref before the ballgame told the assistant he would only speak to me - he was obviously intent on enforcing the rules about what an assistant can and can't do (I don't know, maybe he had a problem at his last game with an assistant.)

We had no T's on us at that point; though the home crowd had been on them all game about the calls (fouls were 21-5 against us), I don't bother anymore to complain - it doesn't do any good!

Rainmaker, thanks for your advice. That's pretty much what my AD said - inexperienced refs sometimes get assigned games, and he would let they county AD know what went on - hopefully we won't see the same guys on Thursday!