Net Hung Up

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

O' irony of ironies! Rut is quoting an old ruling by the NFHS which is not in a current book.

There is a huge difference in you and me. I know this ruling was old and I am not saying it has to be followed to the letter like you do all the time.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS Whatever was put out if it was by the NFHS, I believe it was a lot more than two years ago. Perhaps what you saw came from the IHSA.

Actually you would be wrong (again). This was addressed in the NF Guidebook which is put out by the NF and Referee Magazine. Officials from Illinois get a free copy when they attend IHSA Rules Meetings. And it could not have been more than 3 years ago. I am out of town and do not have access to my old guidebooks to give an exact year. I will also say that what the NF said to do was not a hard line ruling. They gave a couple of ways to handle this and basically put the onus on the schools and game management to fix this problem. I neither agree nor disagree either way with the position of the NF. I just said how it was talked about through the NF and how they addressed this situation.

Peace

[Johnny Ringo]

After everything I have read here debating this, I would say I would stop the game based on rule 1-10-1 ... 15-18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the rim.

or if possible and known - change the nets. Not fair to the shooters to have to shoot at a not normal looknig target.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This was addressed in the NF Guidebook which is put out by the NF and Referee Magazine. Officials from Illinois get a free copy when they attend IHSA Rules Meetings. And it could not have been more than 3 years ago. I am out of town and do not have access to my old guidebooks to give an exact year. I will also say that what the NF said to do was not a hard line ruling. They gave a couple of ways to handle this and basically put the onus on the schools and game management to fix this problem. I neither agree nor disagree either way with the position of the NF. I just said how it was talked about through the NF and how they addressed this situation.

Ok, I went and found the book of which you speak.
http://secure.referee.com/index.cfm?...Product_ID=307

It is not immediately clear who is responsible for the content. Is it Referee, Inc., NASO, the NFHS, all of the above, or some of each. These groups are contracting with each other more everyday and now have joint ventures and publications. We've had that discussion before, so I don't wish to rehash it. Anyway as that is a minor point, I'm not going to quibble over it. I'm just confused as to why the NFHS would publish the Officials Manual and also partake in the writing of this Officials Guidebook.

Anyway what I would like to focus upon is that I would like to see exactly what was written in this book from whichever officiating source it comes on the issue of the flipped up net. I'm sure that it could be helpful.

Thanks for making me aware of this publication.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ok, I went and found the book of which you speak.
http://secure.referee.com/index.cfm?...Product_ID=307

It is not immediately clear who is responsible for the content. Is it Referee, Inc., NASO, the NFHS, all of the above, or some of each. These groups are contracting with each other more everyday and now have joint ventures and publications. We've had that discussion before, so I don't wish to rehash it. Anyway as that is a minor point, I'm not going to quibble over it. I'm just confused as to why the NFHS would publish the Officials Manual and also partake in the writing of this Officials Guidebook.

I am not going to get in a big debate either, but when the NF slaps their name all over this publication, they are signing off on the content. So as far as I am concerned, it is from the NF directly. Understand that many things discussed in this Guidebook are not rulings or "official" remarks. Many are just suggestions and little tidbits to do things better or look at a particular situation in a different way. This was not a comment like a POE, Editorial change or a Rules change. This was just a little article about nets getting caught up. No different than when in this publication they discussed how to deal with coaches in difficult situations. I take this content the same way I do when I read the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebooks. It is published by NASO but the content is signed off on by the NF. I think the NF likes the software that NASO uses and their database of officiating content to help them produce a good product.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is not immediately clear who is responsible for the content. Is it Referee, Inc., NASO, the NFHS, all of the above, or some of each.

Fwiw, it was my understanding that the only books actually certified for sale by the NFHS will have the NFHS logo on their cover. NASO only sells 2 books approved by the NFHS, I think. They are the "Simplified and Illustrated" comic book and the "Rules By Topic". Any other mechanics books, etc. issued by NASO may be correct as per the NFHS issued rules books and the "OFFICIALS MANUAL", but they are not guaranteed to be correct. If there are any differences, and I don't have a clue whether there are any, then the FED MANUAL is the one to follow.

That's my understanding fwiw.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Fwiw, it was my understanding that the only books actually certified for sale by the NFHS will have the NFHS logo on their cover. NASO only sells 2 books approved by the NFHS, I think. They are the "Simplified and Illustrated" comic book and the "Rules By Topic". Any other mechanics books, etc. issued by NASO may be correct as per the NFHS issued rules books and the "OFFICIALS MANUAL", but they are not guaranteed to be correct. If there are any differences, and I don't have a clue whether there are any, then the FED MANUAL is the one to follow.

That's my understanding fwiw.

The Guidebook I am referring to have the NF logo on it and from memory is called the NF Guidebook. You are making way too much out of this to get around the fact that the NF puts out information in this publication as another source for content. I also seriously do not think Referee Magazine/NASO would not at the very least confirm information that they get and put out in this guide. Also they get direct quotes from Mary Struckoff and other Committee members when talking about these issues. They are telling you what the committee wants you to know, not what they think they want you to know. When I get home and look sometime tonight, I will explain what is on the book. I even believe they make a statement in the book that this is a NF Publication. This has nothing to do with Referee Magazine other than the fact NASO is involved and NASO uses many of the same illustrations that are produced for Referee Magazine. I did not buy these publications, I get them free every single year and in every sport when I attend each Rules meeting. I usually have them with me when I officiate as a reference guide to new rules or POEs before the season.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Guidebook I am referring to have the NF logo on it and from memory is called the NF Guidebook. You are making way too much out of this to get around the fact that the NF puts out information in this publication as another source for content. I also seriously do not think Referee Magazine/NASO would not at the very least confirm information that they get and put out in this guide.

I'm not making anything out of it, Jeff. I'm just telling you my understanding of the publications that NASO sells. IAABO also simply copies the NFHS rule and case books, using explicit approval from the FED. IAABO however sells their own mechanics manual too, which apparently has some differences in it from the FED Manual. NASO publications would basically be the same. Both NASO and IAABO have issued rulings, info, etc. before that were wrong, as per NFHS publications.

If there's an NFHS logo on the cover of the book, whatever is in the book is approved by the NFHS. If there isn't an NFHS logo on the book, it isn't approved by the NFHS. The info in a NASO or IAABO publication without an NFHS logo on the cover therefore might be correct, but there is no guarantee that it is correct. That's all I'm saying.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm not making anything out of it, Jeff. I'm just telling you my understanding of the publications that NASO sells. IAABO also simply copies the NFHS rule and case books, using explicit approval from the FED. IAABO however sells their own mechanics manual too, which apparently has some differences in it from the FED Manual. NASO publications would basically be the same. Both NASO and IAABO have issued rulings, info, etc. before that were wrong, as per NFHS publications.

If there's an NFHS logo on the cover of the book, whatever is in the book is approved by the NFHS. If there isn't an NFHS logo on the book, it isn't approved by the NFHS. The info in a NASO or IAABO publication without an NFHS logo on the cover therefore might be correct, but there is no guarantee that it is correct. That's all I'm saying.

Let us relax for a minute. I was not being critical of you personally or your position. If you have not seen the Guidebook you would not know what is on it. It would be hard to know for sure. But we have talked about this before. For the record at the top of each publication (or on the front page) there is a caption that says and I quote, "Official Publication of the NFHS." This is also on this year's publication and other sports publications (football to be exact). Also many of the content are not directly about rules or POEs as I stated. They have things like "Quick Tips" which reiterate things that are already in other publications like mechanics or even the concept of refereeing the defense and offense. There is even a tip about putting an extra uniform in your bag. I will still have to do some looking to see where this was discussed and what year, but this year's publication which I am currently looking at is in the same vane of other year's publications. But most of the information is about the new rules or POEs of the current year.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let us relax for a minute. I was not being critical of you personally or your position. If you have not seen the Guidebook you would not know what is on it. It would be hard to know for sure. But we have talked about this before. For the record at the top of each publication (or on the front page) there is a caption that says and I quote, "Official Publication of the NFHS." This is also on this year's publication and other sports publications (football to be exact).

#1) I am relaxed. If I got any more relaxed, I'd be asleep.

#2) I think that we're basically saying the same thing. If it's got an NFHS logo or the caption somewhere, then it comes from or it's approved by the FED. That's the only point I was trying to get across from the git-go.