First to touch on shot?

[Adam]

I've seen good officials make this call. It's one of those cases where the protest rule would come in handy over time.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've seen good officials make this call. It's one of those cases where the protest rule would come in handy over time.

But too many officials get it wrong becasue they don't know the rule...so, what good would a protest be? It might even lead to a T when the official hears the protest and refuses to budge.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

This helps and why this board is such an assest. A lot of people who are good officials have gotten this wrong.

There is no rule on last to touch and first to touch in NFHS basketball, correct?

Johnny, you're right in what you're trying to say, but I think your wording should be re-worked. There is a "last to touch, first to touch" rule in NFHS, but it doesn't have anything to do with the oob situation. Also, none of your plays included the aspect of continuous player control, but that is an issue on some oob calls. Just be careful how you talk to your compatriots about this issue.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

A1 attempts a try on a fast break. The ball hits high on the glass. A1's momentum carrys her OOB and she quickly comes back in bounds and is the first to touch the ball. Both feet were back inbounds when she touched. Legal or not?

Fwiw, case book play 7.1.1SitB is the exact same play.

[SmokeEater]

Just in case anyone references NCAA, This could be a violation. Provided the player goes out of bounds under his/her own volition and is then the first to touch the ball. My rules interpreter says to look for deception as well.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But too many officials get it wrong becasue they don't know the rule...so, what good would a protest be? It might even lead to a T when the official hears the protest and refuses to budge.

Snaq's referring to another thread where we were discussing the addition of a rule in Missouri that a coach could call a time-out to review the rule book when the ref is in error.

Snaq, you're still forgetting one thing. The most ignorant ref is still on par with the most educated coach when it comes to the rule book. Naturally, that's just MHO!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Just in case anyone references NCAA, This could be a violation. Provided the player goes out of bounds under his/her own volition and is then the first to touch the ball. My rules interpreter says to look for deception as well.

Sure, but none of that happened in any of the plays mentioned in this thread.

I think that "can't be the first to touch after returning from OOB" might be an NBA rule.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sure, but none of that happened in any of the plays mentioned in this thread.

I think that "can't be the first to touch after returning from OOB" might be an NBA rule.

I agree and meant to add that to my original post. Thanks

[missinglink]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Another example and this happened in a varsity girls game and was discussed after the game with the crew and later I phoned a Div. I official.

A1 recieves the inbound pass from A2 after a made basket by Team B. A1 begins to dribble and trips over her own feet and stumbles out of bounds. The ball remains inbounds. There is no pressure from the defense (all five players are on the other end of the court). A2 is running from backcourt and doe snot see this. There is no one else even close to the play. A1 collects herself returns from OOB to inbounds where she continues the dribble.

Legal?

Same principle as the other example.

This play was allowed originally, but after all officials were in agreement that it should have been called a violation.

A2 is running from backcourt and "doe snot".....
Well, it is no wonder why she slipped, that stuff is really slippery!!!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by missinglink

A2 is running from backcourt and "doe snot".....
Well, it is no wonder why she slipped, that stuff is really slippery!!!

Even Ms. Annoying Typo Gal let that one go -- just too easy!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by missinglink

A2 is running from backcourt and "doe snot".....
Well, it is no wonder why she slipped, that stuff is really slippery!!!

I was at the zoo last week looking at the deer and one of them sneezed. Yeah - I got doe snot all over me.

Could have been worse. Could have been buck shot, er, I mean buck snot.

Actually, I went past the howler monkey cage and saw quite a few coaches in there.

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Johnny, you're right in what you're trying to say, but I think your wording should be re-worked. There is a "last to touch, first to touch" rule in NFHS, but it doesn't have anything to do with the oob situation. Also, none of your plays included the aspect of continuous player control, but that is an issue on some oob calls. Just be careful how you talk to your compatriots about this issue.

Rainmaker, can you explain this a little more? How would that change one of this plays?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Just in case anyone references NCAA, This could be a violation. Provided the player goes out of bounds under his/her own volition and is then the first to touch the ball. My rules interpreter says to look for deception as well.

Deception? Why?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Rainmaker, can you explain this a little more? How would that change one of this plays?

She's saying there is a last to touch, first to touch aspect in BC violations but not on OOB situations. Don't let it confuse you, as it has nothing to do with your plays.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Another example and this happened in a varsity girls game and was discussed after the game with the crew and later I phoned a Div. I official.

Please note that there is a rule regarding this in the NCAA. There was much confusion about its meaning when it was first put in about three seasons ago. I have even attended NCAA rules clinics in which it was taught incorrectly.

Here is the text of the NCAA rule:
RULE 9, Section 4. Player Out of Bounds

Art. 1.

A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then

becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court
has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-5.8.a, does not receive the pass along
the endline by a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his
or her return to the playing court.

A.R. 181.

Team A sets a double screen for A1, who, in attempting to come across the free-throw lane, is legally obstructed by offensive and defensive players so that A1 leaves the playing court under the basket, circles around, returns to the playing court and then is the first to receive the ball. RULING: A violation has been committed by A1 for leaving the playing court and then becoming the first player to touch the ball upon return.

However, the NCAA also has this ruling that is basically the same as the NFHS rule:

A.R. 143.

A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor inbounds but A1, who is off balance, falls outside the end line. A1 returns, secures control of the ball, and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 has not left the playing court voluntarily and was not in control of the ball when leaving the playing court. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the playing court. The try is unsuccessful, and A1 comes onto the playing court and regains control of the ball.

Therefore, when you are speaking to an NCAA official, know that there is in fact such a rule, but that it must be understood correctly. In short, the NCAA rule is not intended to penalize players for going OOB as part of making a play (saving a ball or following a shot) or when they lose their balance and fall.