10 seconds

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What better way to get coaches to read the rule book?

I could almost see it as a tool to shut the coach up. "Gee, coach, if you're so sure I'm wrong, why doncha call a time out so we can look it up? PLEEASE???" Truth is, most coaches just want to rant and complain, not actually to be right.

One thing I have to add to this is that in virtually every counting situation, the player is actually getting a bit more than the alotted time to make the play. I have yet to see a ref at any level, make a 10 second count in real time. If they were, their arm would be swinging a lot faster than it normally is. I've tried it, and timed other refs, and 10 seconds has usually elapsed by the time the ref got to 6 or 7.
That said, when a player gets called for a time violation, he usually deserves it.

[Adam]

On everything but free throws and 3 seconds, I try to time my counts with the clock. Every now and then I watch for three seconds and verify, to keep my count timed. If the defense earns a 10 second back court or a 5 second held or dribbled ball or 5 second throw-in, it's not fair to hold my whistle an extra couple seconds. Agressive defenses sometimes start fouling when they don't get their earned 5 seconds.

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by PYRef

One thing I have to add to this is that in virtually every counting situation, the player is actually getting a bit more than the alotted time to make the play. I have yet to see a ref at any level, make a 10 second count in real time. If they were, their arm would be swinging a lot faster than it normally is. I've tried it, and timed other refs, and 10 seconds has usually elapsed by the time the ref got to 6 or 7.
That said, when a player gets called for a time violation, he usually deserves it.

In our clinic this year, one of my observers told me that I was counting way to fast for the 10-second count. We also video our sessions (mostly to look at positioning). Well, we counted and my count was always right on or a hair slow.......... I looked at my observer and suggested that he needed to speed up his count!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref

I looked at my observer and suggested that he needed to speed up his count!

That was. . . um. . . bold. If your 10-second count on a free throw is exactly 10 seconds, then it is too fast.

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

I could almost see it as a tool to shut the coach up. "Gee, coach, if you're so sure I'm wrong, why doncha call a time out so we can look it up? PLEEASE???" Truth is, most coaches just want to rant and complain, not actually to be right.

I've been doing this for 3 years and let me tell you, i had never had a coach prove me wrong

[Kelvin green]

I have to tell you, I still think this is the dumbest thing I have heard about. Cnt believe anyone would rvrn think about this... If the coach is right then he does not lose his time out

I want to call time out because I dont think it was a travel.. lets look up the jump stop rule everytime I call it?

I want to call time out because (you insert it) we can look it up and tell you your interp is wrong....

If there are no time outs?

[Adam]

Kelvin, that's just it. Black and white rules references only. Travels are judgment calls, and judgment calls aren't eligible for protest. Coaches aren't going to waste their timeouts when they don't know the rules. When they do know the rules, then the refs won't have to worry about so much griping.

Also, FWIW, there ought to be some recourse when the refs are making calls that have no rules basis; such as "first to touch," or traveling on a throw-in, or giving the HC an indirect for changing the book after the 10 minute mark. I like it as long as judgment calls are exempt, and as long as there is a punishment for losing the protest. If there are no timeouts, either disallow the protest, or give them their timeout (and it's accompanying technical foul).

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Kelvin, that's just it. Black and white rules references only. Travels are judgment calls, and judgment calls aren't eligible for protest. Coaches aren't going to waste their timeouts when they don't know the rules. When they do know the rules, then the refs won't have to worry about so much griping.

Also, FWIW, there ought to be some recourse when the refs are making calls that have no rules basis; such as "first to touch," or traveling on a throw-in, or giving the HC an indirect for changing the book after the 10 minute mark. I like it as long as judgment calls are exempt, and as long as there is a punishment for losing the protest. If there are no timeouts, either disallow the protest, or give them their timeout (and it's accompanying technical foul).

All travel calls are judgement? How abut kid falling to the floor with ball and ref does not call a travel, Ref screws the rule---

Player takes one step and jump stops, then pivots and travel is not called... Is that judgement? or is that a misapplication of the rules...

Hopefully you can see where I am going with this...

bud lists another of "charge on team and deciding whether to shoot FTs" --- Isnt that judgement if there was team control or not?

The coach could almost stop any play and say it was the misapplication of a black and white rule.

I will stand by my statement that allowing this is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in basketball

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

All travel calls are judgement? How abut kid falling to the floor with ball and ref does not call a travel, Ref screws the rule---

Did the player have control of the ball?

Player takes one step and jump stops, then pivots and travel is not called... Is that judgement? or is that a misapplication of the rules...

Did he gather the ball before or after he jumped?

There's are still judgment calls, KG.

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

All travel calls are judgement? How abut kid falling to the floor with ball and ref does not call a travel, Ref screws the rule---

Player takes one step and jump stops, then pivots and travel is not called... Is that judgement? or is that a misapplication of the rules...

Hopefully you can see where I am going with this...

bud lists another of "charge on team and deciding whether to shoot FTs" --- Isnt that judgement if there was team control or not?

The coach could almost stop any play and say it was the misapplication of a black and white rule.

I will stand by my statement that allowing this is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in basketball

Kelvin, you are looking way into that "what if's" It's rather simple and coaches understand that also. They will not protest a travel or fouls on the basis of "judgement". I will call a protest when a rule that they never heard of, like 10 seconds on the free throw line. Deciding to shot during a team control or player control foul is a protestable offence. Coaches rarely use it because it's one of the they rather just get the game going and spend 10 mins looking up a rule that they can lose a time out.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by budjones05

Kelvin, you are looking way into that "what if's" It's rather simple and coaches understand that also. They will not protest a travel or fouls on the basis of "judgement". I will call a protest when a rule that they never heard of, like 10 seconds on the free throw line. Deciding to shot during a team control or player control foul is a protestable offence. Coaches rarely use it because it's one of the they rather just get the game going and spend 10 mins looking up a rule that they can lose a time out.

Bud, just to be perfectly clear, does Missouri currently have a state "protest rule" per se in basketball similar to what you are talking about? Iow, something that is completely different than what is in contained in the NFHS rule book?

[budjones05]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I have to tell you, I still think this is the dumbest thing I have heard about. Cnt believe anyone would rvrn think about this... If the coach is right then he does not lose his time out

I want to call time out because I dont think it was a travel.. lets look up the jump stop rule everytime I call it?

I want to call time out because (you insert it) we can look it up and tell you your interp is wrong....

If there are no time outs?

Kelvin, judgement calls are not protestable. If the coach is out of time outs, then he is s.o.l. They can protest anything that is not a judgement call. Fouls and traveling are not consider to be protestable. He can't protest whether or not a person has been illegally touch or not but they can protest whether or not a charge results in free throws because that put the other team in the bonus