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-   -   Rules Question from a basketball coach... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30453-rules-question-basketball-coach.html)

bigdogrunnin Tue Dec 26, 2006 09:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
If you are a HS boys coach using NFHS rules, then this is properly called a Team Technical foul. It is rule 10-1-5d. It is not charged to any particular individual. It does count as one team foul towards your total for the opponents reaching the bonus. It does not cause the head coach to lose the coaching box. The penalty is 2FTs and the awarding of the ball to the opponents at the division line opposite the table.



Again for NFHS rules:

The basket counts and the player who was fouled is awarded 2FTs with no one on the lane. (Yes, that is TWO FTs that are awarded even though the goal was scored.) Following the FTs the offended team is awarded the ball OOB at the nearest spot to the location of the foul.

The opponent is charged with one personal foul to the player who fouled and it counts as one team foul towards the opponent reaching the bonus.
Thanks Nevada. I know TOO MANY officials who still get both of these wrong. Of course, I have been on the wrong end of each as well.

Adam Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:34am
I'll add only one more thing. On the delay technicals; if B1 reaches across the boundary plane during a throwin and the team has already been warned, it's a Team Tech that only counts towards the team's foul count (but not the player's). If B1 reaches across and slaps the ball, the Tech is charged directly to the player.

TopGun Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:59am
No, I did not get to pick the shooter. The player who was fouled shot both shots. Was that right?

BktBallRef Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:26am
Yes, it was.

Mark Dexter Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Yes, Johnny, in NFHS basketball ALL fouls except for indirect technical fouls charged to the Head Coach count towards the team total in the half.
Nevada is right for 99% of all situations. Not to confuse the coach, but rulebook quiz time. What other foul or fouls (besides an indirect T charged to the coach) do not count towards the bonus?

Mark Padgett Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dexter
Nevada is right for 99% of all situations. Not to confuse the coach, but rulebook quiz time. What other foul or fouls (besides an indirect T charged to the coach) do not count towards the bonus?
Fouls occurring after the 10th team foul. :D

Mark Dexter Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Fouls occurring after the 10th team foul. :D
Boy - Padgett being off his meds saved me from a major mea culpa. I'm glad I went back and read the rulebook on this one.

Texas Aggie Tue Dec 26, 2006 02:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
TX, I'm sure you will check your book and see that your answer to #1 is not right.
As you can see, I quickly changed it, however, in 10.3.6, it is a player (not team) T to "delay the game by acts such as...", so an official could rule that a player himself is delaying the game. I'm not saying you should look for this, but be aware that in certain situations, this might be appropriate under similar circumstances as the facts listed. Then, once it is a player T, it does count toward the 5 for that player.

If he's on his way back down court and just flicks the ball toward the baseline, that still fits under section 1.

Jurassic Referee Tue Dec 26, 2006 02:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
As you can see, I quickly changed it, however, in 10.3.6, it is a player (not team) T to "delay the game by acts such as...", so an official could rule that a player himself is delaying the game. I'm not saying you should look for this, but be aware that in certain situations, this might be appropriate under similar circumstances as the facts listed. Then, once it is a player T, it does count toward the 5 for that player.

If he's on his way back down court and just flicks the ball toward the baseline, that still fits under section 1.
The NFHS has already looked into it. After they did, they issued case book play 10.1.5SitD. That states that an official should call a team technical foul, not a player technical foul.

Texas Aggie Tue Dec 26, 2006 02:55pm
The casebook play you reference deals with that one and only that one play that's listed. What if a player grabs the ball, holds it, then when his team is in position, passes it to the official? Then does it again?

All I'm saying is to be aware of section 3 article 6 and use your judgment as to whether that section applies to a given situation better than article 1.

Mark Padgett Tue Dec 26, 2006 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The casebook play you reference deals with that one and only that one play that's listed. What if a player grabs the ball, holds it, then when his team is in position, passes it to the official? Then does it again?

All I'm saying is to be aware of section 3 article 6 and use your judgment as to whether that section applies to a given situation better than article 1.
I think the rules support calling an unsportsmanlike technical on a player if you feel his/her actions were truly egregious. This seems like one of those calls that is at your discretion.

Old School Tue Dec 26, 2006 04:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dexter
Nevada is right for 99% of all situations. Not to confuse the coach, but rulebook quiz time. What other foul or fouls (besides an indirect T charged to the coach) do not count towards the bonus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Fouls occurring after the 10th team foul. :D
Good one! Made me laugh out loud...!!! I vote this one the best response today!

Jurassic Referee Tue Dec 26, 2006 07:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The casebook play you reference deals with that one and only that one play that's listed. What if a player grabs the ball, holds it, then when his team is in position, passes it to the official? Then does it again?

All I'm saying is to be aware of section 3 article 6 and use your judgment as to whether that section applies to a given situation better than article 1.
That case book play deals with someone delaying a throw-in after a made basket. It tells you to call a team technical foul if someone does interfere and delay the throw-in.

Why try to find something else to apply when he NFHS is already telling us what to do?:confused:

Texas Aggie Tue Dec 26, 2006 09:33pm
They are NOT telling us what to do in the situation I described. The casebook says, "A3 slaps the ball away..." That's different from what I described.

What is the purpose of Rule 10.3.6A?

Nevadaref Wed Dec 27, 2006 04:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
What is the purpose of Rule 10-3-6a
(Rules book citations use hyphens, case book citations use dots.)

10-3-6a is there to cover situations in which a player delays the game, but it is not one of the four situations for which a team warning is authorized.

Now if you wish an example of such a situation...
A1 loses the ball OOB in his backcourt against light pressure. B1 attempts to get the ball back into play quickly as he sees that his teammates reacted quickly to the turnover and have run down the court leaving their opponents far behind in the new backcourt. B1 has fetched the ball and is about to hand it to the official when A1 recognizes his team's disadvantage and therefore jumps in front of B1 and prevents him from getting the ball to the official.


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