NF Rules Test Part 1 - Page 2

BktBallRef · #16 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 15, 2001, 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
If someone decides to cheat they are only cheating themselves...

I'm afraid that's not true. In many states, exams are used to determine whether an official achieves certification to work varsity games or playoffs games. Cheaters cheat themsleves, but they also cheat the players, coaches, fans, and their fellow officials. To each his own I guess. That's just my opinion.

Quote:

Besides, how do you know if KDM has the right answer or if he is just a crazed official that doesn't know the rules

Because we receive Part 1 as a practice exam, so I have the answers as well.

Anybody else have the answers to any other exams they would like to share?

JRutledge · #17 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 15, 2001, 10:00pm

Well in my state the Part 1 is an open book exam. We all take the test together for the most part in your particular officials association. Now we do have to take the Part 2 Exam for for promotion. And depending on your level that you are trying to get promoted to, it can be a closed or open book test. But it is only required for those going for promotion in that particular year. And your ranking has much more significance to playoff opportunities than taking a test.

Just because you get the answers does not mean you are a better an official or not. I think it means much more if your understand why the answers are true or false than whether or not you got the answer right. If you do not understand why a answer is false is much more significant than guessing one or the other.

Just an opinion.

BktBallRef · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 15, 2001, 10:49pm

I think a lot of people care, Jeff. We're not really discussing whether taking or passing a test makes you a better official or not. Studying the rules, reading the case book and learning how to interpret them makes you a better official. That's the real purpose of test. Therefore, it makes no sense to just post the answers on the Internet. As I said before, such cheaters hurt the players, coaches, fans, and their fellow officials.

Brad · #19 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 15, 2001, 10:53pm

OK -- some good points have been made about NOT having the answers sitting our here on the discussion board. If someone really wants to cheat, I'm sure that not having the answers here is not going to stop them, but it doesn't send the best message to have the answers posted, so they are gone...

Someone emailed me about this the other day (forgive me that I don't remember who) and asked if it was a big deal to post them. I replied that it wasn't (and I still don't think that it's a major deal), but it seems that enough people use the test as a significant part of an official's ranking, etc., that we probably should not post the answers until later in the season, after all tests have been taken.

Thanks,
Brad

JRutledge · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 16, 2001, 12:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think a lot of people care, Jeff. We're not really discussing whether taking or passing a test makes you a better official or not. Studying the rules, reading the case book and learning how to interpret them makes you a better official. That's the real purpose of test. Therefore, it makes no sense to just post the answers on the Internet. As I said before, such cheaters hurt the players, coaches, fans, and their fellow officials.

TH, please do not miss my point. I am not saying you should not care. I am saying that whether someone gets an 80% or a 100% is not going to prove anything as an official. If you cannot apply the rules, passing a test is not what it takes to officiate.

If test were the best determiner of officating ability, why do the higher levels not take them. I will be doing college games for the first time this year, I do not have to take a test of any kind. Now there is some tests that you can take and are developed, but you do not have to pass one to become a college official. And the should be the case for HS. When we go to HS camps, rules are almost never a focus. So what do you call those officials that do higher than HS levels? Are they cheaters because they did not have to take a test. The rules are very important, but whether you know if the logo on the compression shorts is 2 inches or 2 1/4 inches has nothing to do with officiating. Because knowing the intent and why these things are there is much more important. And the fact that many of the questions are poorly worded and vague and my state always throws out one or two questions because of this fact, why put so much focus on them.

I have no problem with taking them. I have no problem dealing with them at all. But calling people that have the answers as cheaters is a bit much. And it does not hurt anyone because they get a 60% or a 81%, you still have to officiate a game and understand why those answers are true or false. Knowing why is always more important than knowing the answers.

Peace

BktBallRef · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 16, 2001, 08:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
But calling people that have the answers as cheaters is a bit much.

If your state requires you to take and pass either the NF Part 1, Part 2, or IAABO Refresher exam, and you get the answers off an Internet site, that's not cheating? C'mon Jeff, you're smarter than that.

Quote:

And it does not hurt anyone because they get a 60% or a 81%, you still have to officiate a game and understand why those answers are true or false.

Yes, you do still have to officiate the game. And people will be put into situations, becaused they've cheated, that they're not prepared for.

Let's say a certain state requires an official to make at least an 80 on the exam. An official who has made below 80 for the past three years makes 100 because he finds the answers are posted on a discussion board. Now, this official can work varsity ball. Although he appears to be ready, he's not because he doesn't spend time studying the rule book and case book. Yes, indeed, he does hurt those whose games he officiates and those who officiate with him.

As long as exams are used for certification, people who cheat to improve their score are definitely hurting the game. Surely you can see that.

Jerry Baldwin · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 16, 2001, 11:41am

I apologize for starting this mess. It was my intention to help officials as they took Part 1, not to post answers wholesale to fill in an answer sheet. I had hoped that as officials took the test and came across a question that they were unsure of the answer. They would post the question, a discussion would follow, a consensus, then I would post the correct answer and rule reference. In Arkansas we are required to take Part 1, open book. I have scheduled a local rules meeting for 10/22 and invited a number of officials to come fellowship and take the test. Each person reads a question, gives their answer, discussion, ageement and I give the correct answer if they have it wrong. I checked with Brad about giving out answers to the test, but not in a wholesale fasion that earlier was posted, but has been removed and we thought it would be a good idea. I never thought the discussion would go to arguing about the value of the test or the value of studying the rule book. I assumed all good officals did that. Foolish me. Again, I apologize for starting this thread, my intentions were good but perhaps bad timing. Sooo Sorry.

JRutledge · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 16, 2001, 02:39pm

Quote:

I have no problem with taking them. I have no problem dealing with them at all. But calling people that have the answers as cheaters is a bit much. And it does not hurt anyone because they get a 60% or a 81%, you still have to officiate a game and understand why those answers are true or false. Knowing why is always more important than knowing the answers.

Peace

So what you are saying is that someone can memorize what is on the test, but not ever get into the rulebook and understand the rules? Taking a test only shows how well you understand the exact wording of the test, not your true knowledge of the rules.

Remember half the questions are repeat questions year in, year out. And it only tests a very small aspect of the rulebook. I did not understand half the test had new rules until I got my new rulebooks (we can take the exam online in Illinois).

We are just going to half to disagree on this one, posting answers means nothing. It only shows that you can remember wording and verbage rather than understanding rules and exceptions to those rules that make real rules understanding clear. Just knowing one thing in an article does not help you understand all the applications. And that is all the test do, focus on very small aspects of the rules.

Peace

BktBallRef · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 17, 2001, 08:11am

No need to apologize, Jerry. You didn't do anything wrong. Rut and I have been disagreeing for years.

JRutledge · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 17, 2001, 02:43pm

BktBallRef, and I have been at it for years about different stuff. But for the most part we share the same ideals and goals in officiating, we just do not always agree on how to achieve or maintain those things. We are just having another one of our disagreements philosophies that we do not share. But just like anything or anyone, a lot of what you believe is where you live. Tests are used in both of our states differently, so that is where this disagreements has it's origins.

Peace