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-   -   What would it take for a double T on a 13 year old boy? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30331-what-would-take-double-t-13-year-old-boy.html)

JRutledge Wed Dec 20, 2006 05:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
This is very bad advice. Do not listen to this crap! If you whack a kid or a coach for bad behavior, get out of there! It is not about you. Go to the table, report your technical then go to other side of the court. You do not need to hit them with another tech right away, you got administrative duties to perform, go do that. Game management skills.
So what you are saying is if you call a T on a coach or player and that coach or players goes nuts on you and while you are at the table reporting, we are just supposed to ignore them? You are the wrong person to talk about bad advice considering the comparisons you made in the NBA fight post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Totally disagree again. Part of my pre-game, especially big games, especially games where a clinician might be there. You call a technical, report it and go to the other side of the court. This is good technique! You are emotional, coach is emotional. What we don't want to happen at that precise moment is you to give the coach/player another T and they are ejected.
Why not? Speak for yourself there cappy. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Walking away from conflict? That's putting it too simple. It's how you handle conflict that's important, and you addressed it with a technical, and you walked away. Most assigners want to see how well you call a game, get into position, your judgement on the floor, under fire. I think after you access a T and you go to the opposite side of the court will please the assigners better than you standing there giving them 2 technicals.
If a player or coach cannot handle themselves enough to not get the second one, then that is there problem. They should realize they got a T for a reason. To keep running your mouth or continuing antics, then so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Thank god because that's exactly what that was. Quite telling officials to go out and call multiple technical's. One technical is good and it shows you have attempted to address the situation. Now, get away from the situation momentarily to give it a chance to slimmer down. If a 2nd T needs to get called, it will get called. Hopefully, it's not at the same time and not by the same official.
The court is only so big. Not sure where you can go. If the player comes after you I have no problem giving a coach a T and multiple Ts at that. Especially at the lowest of levels I feel it would send a message.

Peace

blindzebra Wed Dec 20, 2006 05:21pm
Officiating is a situational thing where our judgment is called into action.

We can have all kinds of philosophies, and agree with them or disagree with them all we want, but no philosophy can trump doing what is needed within those situations that occur.

I can say it's better that a partner give the second, but when the situation calls for me giving both...then I'm giving both.

You can say don't call one for your partner when the coach or player is after them, but if we are working with a partner, like say Iref4u2, I'll go get one before I let a game go in the toilet.

We have to do what is best for the game at that time and worrying about philosophies, what assignors would think, or anything else shouldn't enter the picture.

Old School Wed Dec 20, 2006 07:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
So what you are saying is if you call a T on a coach or player and that coach or players goes nuts on you and while you are at the table reporting, we are just supposed to ignore them? You are the wrong person to talk about bad advice considering the comparisons you made in the NBA fight post.
Actually, I stated my position rather nicely. You got a problem with it. Quite beating around the bush and come out with it! You wanted to address just about everything other than the issue at hand. Hell, I got tired of trying to follow you. Only thing I can say is I'm glad people that think like you are not in positions of leadership, because we all know what you would have done about that incident. NOTHING!!!!

Quote:
If a player or coach cannot handle themselves enough to not get the second one, then that is there problem.
Getting the second one is a matter of judgment. The reason we have put this into our pregame is to prevent such a confrontation/situation from escalating. Isn't this good game management? At least we are trying....

Note: it is apart of our pregame. When a technical is called, we all run over to the spot to determine what just happen and what to do next. If we got a volatile situation, we get the calling official out of there. The thinking is to protect the official, protect the coach, protect the integrity of the game, protect our game. If we can handle the situation without ejecting the coach, we are going to try. If the coach wants to air his concerns, he can air it to one of the non-calling officials. The non-calling officials job is to calm the coach and listen to the their concerns. 9 out of 10 times this works and we can continue the game w/o any ejections. In the one time it doesn't, we still follow our procedures and if we do it right, another official will signal the 2nd T.

blindzebra Wed Dec 20, 2006 07:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Actually, I stated my position rather nicely. You got a problem with it. Quite beating around the bush and come out with it! You wanted to address just about everything other than the issue at hand. Hell, I got tired of trying to follow you. Only thing I can say is I'm glad people that think like you are not in positions of leadership, because we all know what you would have done about that incident. NOTHING!!!!


Getting the second one is a matter of judgment. The reason we have put this into our pregame is to prevent such a confrontation/situation from escalating. Isn't this good game management? At least we are trying....

Note: it is apart of our pregame. When a technical is called, we all run over to the spot to determine what just happen and what to do next. If we got a volatile situation, we get the calling official out of there. The thinking is to protect the official, protect the coach, protect the integrity of the game, protect our game. If we can handle the situation without ejecting the coach, we are going to try. If the coach wants to air his concerns, he can air it to one of the non-calling officials. The non-calling officials job is to calm the coach and listen to the their concerns. 9 out of 10 times this works and we can continue the game w/o any ejections. In the one time it doesn't, we still follow our procedures and if we do it right, another official will signal the 2nd T.
Too funny...we have a T, so the solution to calm things is to put 3 officials at the spot?

I agree that the calling official should try to move away, but not to avoid giving a second T, it's so that the official looks calm and professional, and the coach or player looks bad if they chase the official.

Also in NFHS the coach loses the box, so at that point I believe a non-calling official should go over to inform the coach, but it's not to allow the coach to voice their concerns, it's to remove some of the emotion and hopefully diffuse the situation.

If I'm going over to notify the coach I'm not talking to the coach, I'm observing the players. If the coach wants to use that first FT to talk to my backside...CALMLY...so be it, but after that second FT goes up, they get told to sit and I'm going about getting the ball back into play.

A philosophy is all well and good, but in practice, almost every 2 T ejection I have been involved with has been a BANG, BANG situation. There was no chance to get away or allowing the second T to be given by a partner.

bronco Wed Dec 20, 2006 08:36pm
I realize this is 4 pages old already, but that's what happens when you don't get on here all day.;)

From a coach's perspective, the first time I yelled at a player this season was midway through a 10 game schedule, with 6th graders. A player thought he was fouled, and did the classic raise your hands, look at the ref move. There was a TO right after that, and I ripped into the kid. He didn't get a T, but I wish he did. This is almost identical to the OP, and IMO, if you let a younger kid get away with this, all it does is encourage it in the future. By the way, the only comments I got from parents afterwards were saying that they liked to see me get into the kid for this, so I think that is a good sign.:)

tomegun Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
If the coach wants to air his concerns, he can air it to one of the non-calling officials. The non-calling officials job is to calm the coach and listen to the their concerns.
Where do you live? I ask this because I don't ever want to do a game with you! What you said above is total BS and it is officials like you who make it hard for other officials. It is well into the season and I have probably been stating my opinion stronger than normal because I feel a sort of state of emergency where high school officials are concerned because too many things do not go right in a high school game.

It is best I don't really say how I feel about this because it is tough to do with out cursing or name-calling.
Why do you have to go and "console" a coach after your partner gives him/her a technical foul? Why does the non-calling official have to calm down another adult? It makes it look like it is necessary or correct to lend a coach an ear after he does something wrong. You talk about game management, but you can't manage a cohesive crew? The BS flag is flying high right now. You don't really know game management or game awareness. You really don't!

tomegun Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:25pm
This thread is only two pages on my computer. Do personal settings make a difference?

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
This thread is only two pages on my computer. Do personal settings make a difference?
Possibly, if you're using the "ignore" feature for instance.

26 Year Gap Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Where do you live? I ask this because I don't ever want to do a game with you! What you said above is total BS and it is officials like you who make it hard for other officials. It is well into the season and I have probably been stating my opinion stronger than normal because I feel a sort of state of emergency where high school officials are concerned because too many things do not go right in a high school game.

It is best I don't really say how I feel about this because it is tough to do with out cursing or name-calling.
Why do you have to go and "console" a coach after your partner gives him/her a technical foul? Why does the non-calling official have to calm down another adult? It makes it look like it is necessary or correct to lend a coach an ear after he does something wrong. You talk about game management, but you can't manage a cohesive crew? The BS flag is flying high right now. You don't really know game management or game awareness. You really don't!
You DO realize that earlier in this thread you said you would work with him. don't you?

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
You DO realize that earlier in this thread you said you would work with him. don't you?
I was just thinking the same thing :D

Adam Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
You DO realize that earlier in this thread you said you would work with him. don't you?
This alone was worth following all 4 pages. :D

ncump7 Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:41pm
I had a similar situation in MS game last year early in the season. I called a foul on a player who reached out and whacked the shooter across both arms. He put both hands on his head, jumped up and shouted "I didn't touch him!" I T'd him up immediately. About one minute later, as he was guarding the inbounds passer, he reached across the line and knocked the ball from the thrower's hand. Tweet. He was gone. He only lasted about 3 minutes in the game, but I lost no sleep over it. Coach told me I was too nit-picky.

Adam Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncump7
I had a similar situation in MS game last year early in the season. I called a foul on a player who reached out and whacked the shooter across both arms. He put both hands on his head, jumped up and shouted "I didn't touch him!" I T'd him up immediately. About one minute later, as he was guarding the inbounds passer, he reached across the line and knocked the ball from the thrower's hand. Tweet. He was gone. He only lasted about 3 minutes in the game, but I lost no sleep over it. Coach told me I was too nit-picky.
I got told the other night that I was calling traveling too much. Boys Freshman had hippity-hop syndrome when they caught the ball. Of course, he wanted me to call more when the other team had the ball.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
This thread is only two pages on my computer. Do personal settings make a difference?
Yes.

1. User CP (Control Panel)
2. Edit Options
3. Thread Display Options
4. Number of Posts to Show Per Page

Your choices are: Forum Default, 5, 10, 20, 30, and 40.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
You DO realize that earlier in this thread you said you would work with him. don't you?
I too noticed this giving when giving this thread a quick read. I had a chuckle. :)
Additionally, there is the factor that some here have stated that they don't believe that Old School is really an official.


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