Up and Under Move

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Most good defenders go straight up. I'm amazed at how many times a shooter jumps into a vertical defender and his coach wants me to call the foul on the defender. Guaranteed, however, if I called it that way on the other end; he'd be screaming about verticality.

You're kidding, right?

I would guesstimate that defenders jump within their vertical plane slightly less than half the time.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not that it has any effect on the ruling, but defenders are coached not to leave their feet because leaving your feet is a great way to watch the would-have-been shooter drive around you and get a layup.

Yes, that's one reason. Another reason is that defender's leave their feet, jump at the shooter and foul him.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Still disagree. The guard jumping at the shooter would not have initiated illegal contact at any time before landing if the shooter hadn't moved under the defender after he became airborne.

The way that I read it, I'd call this one on the shooter.

So you disagree with the rule book. Okay.

I'll bet it's happened hundreds of times to you and you've never called it on the shooter.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Because the shooter hasn't started to go anywhere when the defender jumped. If the shooter hadn't have moved in and under the defender after the defender was in the air, there would have been no contact.

And we're still waiting on the rule cite.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If no one is in front of you when you jump, aren't you entitled to land? You're forgetting that the shooter wasn't vertical either. The shooter moved under the airborne defender after the defender had already jumped.

The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You're kidding, right?
I would guesstimate that defenders jump within their vertical plane slightly less than half the time.

That's why I qualified it with "most good defenders." I know, I know. Tautology.

[Carl Cramer]

For what it's worth, I have never seen this play called a foul on the shooter. Not once ever.

Have you?

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by Carl Cramer

For what it's worth, I have never seen this play called a foul on the shooter. Not once ever.

Have you?

With the defender jumping towards the offensive player????

NOPE, and I'll never call it. He has left LGP.

[Kelvin green]

I have to agree with JR... did some searching in the rule book but they have taken the Comments on the Rules out. It used to be there...The principles are always the same..

Every player is entitled to the spot on the floor provided they get there first.

Once a player jumps, there landing spot has been established and they are entitled to that spot to land.

Faking the defensive player up and then going under him (unless they are so close the defender would have surely fallen on the offender) is no different than a defender sliding under an airborne shooter after the airborne shooter has jumped.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Every player is entitled to the spot on the floor provided they get there first.

Once a player jumps, there landing spot has been established and they are entitled to that spot to land.

This just doesn't seem right to me. Guard steps in front of driving shooter, you've got a block. If he jumps to the same spot, now it's a charge?

[Kelvin green]

I am not sure what you are referring to...


stepping in front of a driving shooter you have a block, and if the defender jumps in front of him it is a charge.

Everything in the defensive principles is about time, space, legal guarding position.. On a player with the ball there is no time or space. Need to establish LGP whether you step or jump. You can step to maintain LGP...

If an airborne shooter drives and jumps and defender moves in, it is a block because defender was not there at the time the offensive player left the floor

I am definitely not sure where you are going with this...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This just doesn't seem right to me. Guard steps in front of driving shooter, you've got a block. If he jumps to the same spot, now it's a charge?

The difference is the the shooter isn't driving. The shooter is standing still, and then moves up and under the defender after the defender went airborne. If the shooter had remained standing still after the shooter went airborne, there would have been no contact.