Rule Relapse - Please Help

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

This part of the email is irrelevant to the discussion. The person catching the inbounds pass did not cause the ball to be out of bounds, because it already was out of bounds.

If the thrower holds the ball across the OOB line and the defender takes the ball away, are you calling an OOB violation?

If the throw-in is a bounce pass, that touches the court inbounds, and then is touched by a player (either team) with a foot on the OOB line, are you still saying the ball "is already out of bounds."

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

If the thrower holds the ball across the OOB line and the defender takes the ball away, are you calling an OOB violation?

No, because (as you well know, I'm sure, or you wouldn't be asking the question ), we are specifically told that the ball is in play and that the defender may hold it or bat it away from the inbounder.

If the throw-in is a bounce pass, that touches the court inbounds, and then is touched by a player (either team) with a foot on the OOB line, are you still saying the ball "is already out of bounds."

Obviously not, because the ball touched the court inbounds. Legal throw-in. But that's also obviously not the situation that is under discussion.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Obviously not, because the ball touched the court inbounds. Legal throw-in. But that's also obviously not the situation that is under discussion.

It may be a legal throw-in, but until the ball is touched or goes out of bounds untouched, the throw-in is not completed. If a bounce pass goes out of bounds untouched, we bring the ball back to the original spot for a throw-in. That certainly is a throw-in violation. 9-2-2.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Obviously not, because the ball touched the court inbounds. Legal throw-in. But that's also obviously not the situation that is under discussion.

I didn't intend to stir all this up again, but since strange things are being said here...

This is NOT a legal throw-in, and does fall under the Penalty section of what we're talking about. The ball touching the court inbounds has nothing to do with whether or not the throw-in provisions have been violated.

And by the way I purposefully phrased the original post, this fits precisely into what we're talking about. The player you're talking about has out of bounds status, which is in the OP. The ball touching the court or not is irrelevant.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

This is NOT a legal throw-in, and does fall under the Penalty section of what we're talking about. The ball touching the court inbounds has nothing to do with whether or not the throw-in provisions have been violated.

Oops, you're right! But the ball does have inbound status at that time, I would think.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Oops, you're right! But the ball does have inbound status at that time, I would think.

Maybe by virtue of geography; but legally it's still a during a throwin. By rule, it's only status is "throwin."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

1)1) If the thrower holds the ball across the OOB line and the defender takes the ball away, are you calling an OOB violation?

2) If the throw-in is a bounce pass, that touches the court inbounds, and then is touched by a player (either team) with a foot on the OOB line, are you still saying the ball "is already out of bounds."

1) That case is specifically outlined in the rules. It is also not a throw-in per se. The ball was never released by the thrower. That's why it's a held ball.

2) That's irrelevant. The player standing OOB that first touched the throw-in committed a violation as per rule 9-2-10. The listed penalty for that violation is a throw-in to the opponents at the original throw-in spot.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) That's irrelevant. The player standing OOB that first touched the throw-in committed a violation as per rule 9-2-10. The listed penalty for that violation is a throw-in to the opponents at the original throw-in spot.

You have made your case clearly. It is not the interpretation of this exact play that I have been given. I have been instructed that the violation is for causing the ball to go OOB (9-3-1) and the correct throw-in spot is that nearest the violation. (9-3-1 penalty).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You have made your case clearly. It is not the interpretation of this exact play that I have been given. I have been instructed that the violation is for causing the ball to go OOB (9-3-1) and the correct throw-in spot is that nearest the violation. (9-3-1 penalty).

By definition(4-42-5), a throw-in ends when the when the throw-in pass touches someone who is either in or out of bounds. The throw-in act ended by touching someone who was OOB, which is a violation of rule 9-2-10. How can it be anything other than a throw-in violation?

Iow, R9-3 is simply an irrelevant rules reference imo.