Partner goes down - coaches go brain dead

[zebraman]

3-person varsity last night. Partner pulls a hammy in 2nd quarter. JV ref filled in for him at halftime. We tell the coaches at halftime and they are OK with it.

2 minutes into the 2nd half and both coaches are riding the new guy.

I have never lectured coaches before but I went to both of them and told them both to leave him alone and let him ref in my best parent voice. I felt like I should send them each to their rooms to take a time-out.

They left him alone after that.

You'd think they'd understand that in that situation, the ref was as nervous as if they were playing some young kid for the first time. Geeze.

[TriggerMN]

Why didn't you just finish the game 2-man instead?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

Why didn't you just finish the game 2-man instead?

Why not try and get some game experience at a higher level into a newer official? Make it a learning and teaching experience?

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Why not try and get some game experience at a higher level into a newer official? Make it a learning and teaching experience?

Is it appropriate for someone to be having a "learning and teaching experience" at a level where the coach may be fired based on the team's win-loss record at the end of the year?

If I work HS varsity and D3 college games, and I am in attendance at a Big 10 game and one of the officials goes down, do you think Tom Izzo and Steve Alford are going to mind if I come down and help finish the game, or do you think they would rather have Ed Hightower and Steve Welmer finish it themselves? It would clearly be an incredible learning experience for my career.

[FrankHtown]

My first varsity game. Me to my partners: "Should I tell the coaches this is my first Varsity Game? " Partners: "Nah, don't worry. They'll figure it out pretty quick."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lpneck

1) Is it appropriate for someone to be having a "learning and teaching experience" at a level where the coach may be fired based on the team's win-loss record at the end of the year?

If I work HS varsity and D3 college games, and I am in attendance at a Big 10 game and one of the officials goes down, do you think Tom Izzo and Steve Alford are going to mind if I come down and help finish the game, or do you think they would rather have Ed Hightower and Steve Welmer finish it themselves? It would clearly be an incredible learning experience for my career.

1) In high school ball, most definitely so imo. How else are we ever going to develop officials if we don't throw them into higher level games? And contrary to some peoples opinions, a high school basketball game really doesn't rank up there in importance with getting the troops out of Iraq. It's a high school basketball game, is all. Period. Coaches don't get fired because an official might blow a call. Are you really trying to say that a coach's win/loss record depends on the quality of the officials he gets? Sorry, I can't agree with that one.

2) Apples and oranges. You can't equate the average high school game with an upper level D1 game.

[LarryS]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Is it appropriate for someone to be having a "learning and teaching experience" at a level where the coach may be fired based on the team's win-loss record at the end of the year?

If I work HS varsity and D3 college games, and I am in attendance at a Big 10 game and one of the officials goes down, do you think Tom Izzo and Steve Alford are going to mind if I come down and help finish the game, or do you think they would rather have Ed Hightower and Steve Welmer finish it themselves? It would clearly be an incredible learning experience for my career.

Isn't one of the coaches going to have a loss added to their record that night anyway?

I don't see how putting the new official in will make that big a difference in the grand scheme of things. If a high school coach (who probably is also under a TEACHING contract) must win a Dec. 12 game to keep his job I submit to you he will be looking for work soon anyway.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

Why didn't you just finish the game 2-man instead?

How many reasons do you want?

The inexperienced official was talented enough that I felt better about continuing 3-person than just going 2-person with my other varsity partner.

It was a fairly physical game and I wanted more off-ball coverage than a 2-person game would have given us.

I could go on.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Is it appropriate for someone to be having a "learning and teaching experience" at a level where the coach may be fired based on the team's win-loss record at the end of the year?

Because we all know that varsity officials grow on trees and you just have to pick one off and put him in the game. Everyone has the learning and teaching experiance of a first varsity game sooner or later.

[deecee]

nice response eastshire -- that hit it on the nose

Ipneck was born a varsity official and therefore he never had to do his first varsity game...good for you Ipneck

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by lpneck

If I work HS varsity and D3 college games, and I am in attendance at a Big 10 game and one of the officials goes down, do you think Tom Izzo and Steve Alford are going to mind if I come down and help finish the game, or do you think they would rather have Ed Hightower and Steve Welmer finish it themselves? It would clearly be an incredible learning experience for my career.

Actually, this exact scenario happened here at the U of I, I'm wanting to say sometime back around '83 or '84, when Kentucky was scheduled to play on Dec. 24. There was a pretty good snowstorm that morning, and the scheduled referees could not make it down from Chicago that day due to the roads being closed. The Kentucky team had made it in a day or two earlier. It just so happened 3 local high school referees (one of whom I know personally) were at the game, and were asked to fill in. They went to the game with their stuff in the car, knowing there might be that possibility. They did work D3, so they knew NCAA rules, and they were also known to the U of I Athletic Dept. because they had done scrimmages.

It just so happened Illinois lost a close game, but Lou Henson made it a point to say it was not the officials' fault - they did a commendable job given the circumstances.

And it was a great experience for those guys. You just never know how you'll get your break.

[26 Year Gap]

My first varsity game this time around was when one of the varsity guys got sick at halftime. I finished the game for him. Better than letting the other guy go solo. Enjoyed it so much we went into OT. I did not get a lot of grief. Maybe they figured I got enough grief in the first game.

[lpneck]

Of course everyone has a first varsity game sooner or later. That is not what this is about.

The situations people are describing about having a lower level official step in in an emergency where there are NO officials is not the same situation as described in the original post. If NO officials (or one official), show up to the game, then it is better to throw a rookie into the fire than to NOT HAVE THE GAME AT ALL. Obviously that happens on occasion and people have to make the best of it and the coaches better adjust. Hopefully the rookie steps up and gets a huge break in their career.

However, in the ORIGINAL SITUATION DESCRIBED, I don't believe that having 3 officials, where one is not ready to work that level, is going to make the game better than having only two officials that are both qualified. Halftime of a varsity game is not the time to give someone a learning opportunity, and yes, in my area, high school basketball coaches get fired. Often.

Zebraman describes in the original post bringing out a JV official at halftime, and having both coaches on his case within two minutes. You want to tell me that there is no possibility that they had a point, and the guy was making inconsistent calls with what they are used to seeing? Especially if there were no problems with either of these coaches in the first half?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lpneck

However, in the ORIGINAL SITUATION DESCRIBED, I don't believe that having 3 officials, where one is not ready to work that level, is going to make the game better than having only two officials that are both qualified. Halftime of a varsity game is not the time to give someone a learning opportunity, and yes, in my area, high school basketball coaches get fired. Often.

Zebraman describes in the original post bringing out a JV official at halftime, and having both coaches on his case within two minutes. You want to tell me that there is no possibility that they had a point, and the guy was making inconsistent calls with what they are used to seeing? Especially if there were no problems with either of these coaches in the first half?

How do you know that he's not ready to work that level?

Zebraman thought it was a good idea and he wanted him there, and Z was the guy on the spot.

Are you a coach or an official? You sure seem to have the mindset of a coach. I hate to break it to you, but some coaches will go after any new face to see if they can get an edge. No, seriously, they will. It's true, it's true.....

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Zebraman describes in the original post bringing out a JV official at halftime, and having both coaches on his case within two minutes. You want to tell me that there is no possibility that they had a point, and the guy was making inconsistent calls with what they are used to seeing? Especially if there were no problems with either of these coaches in the first half?

He did fine. The game was much better with him on our 3-person crew than with just 2 of us. We do most of our JV games around here with 3-person also so he has several 3-person games under his belt over the past couple years. Perhaps the coaches sensed that he was nervous (were any of us not nervous on our first varsity games?) and were testing him. He passed with flying colors. In fact, I called the assignor on the way home and put in a word for the guy and he'll be getting more varsity games this season. I was disappointed in the coaches but proud of my partner.