Being shown up?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with this completely. Just because one official tolerates or does not penalize someone for their behavior, does not do any of a disservice. Not everyone is at the same level of ability or knows how to deal with coaches. This was a first year official, I do not expect him to handle the situation like a long time veteran. Coaches need to know what is acceptable or not and many times they have to run into certain officials that do not care what they think. Maybe they would be able to intimidate much younger official and they will not get that same treatment when they run across someone that knows how the assignor and officiating community feels.

Peace

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Junker

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

Even with a letter sent out, each official is going to have to use their judgment and experience to make decisions on how to handle certain behavior. At the very least the coaches know they are put on notice. Not everyone is going to have to stick a coach because some veterans are going to be able to send a message without anyone realizing (people not on the floor) they took care of a situation.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even with a letter sent out, each official is going to have to use their judgment and experience to make decisions on how to handle certain behavior. At the very least the coaches know they are put on notice. Not everyone is going to have to stick a coach because some veterans are going to be able to send a message without anyone realizing (people not on the floor) they took care of a situation.

Peace

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

[rockyroad]

I personally like the way the NCAA has spelled things out for us as far as bench decorum and how to handle the coaches and their benches...at the meeting, when I first heard it, I was not thrilled and thought it was "putting us in a box" so to speak on how we could deal with coaches...after getting some games under my belt, I really like the new POE. It frees me up from having to constantly deal with coaches and their little helpers...this far into the season, the coaches know that after the warning comes the whack and they are responding quite well...the warning point may be different from official to official, or from crew to crew, but when the warning is given - they have been stopping.

[Mark Dexter]

Counting seconds is pretty much my one automatic technical. I don't mind if the coach wants to ask "Hasn't he been in there for a while?" or "Why don't you call three seconds?" Hell - I'll even let him shout and moan for a three seconds call.

When anyone on the bench starts doing the counting for me, the head coach gets one warning. After that, technical foul every time.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I personally like the way the NCAA has spelled things out for us as far as bench decorum and how to handle the coaches and their benches...at the meeting, when I first heard it, I was not thrilled and thought it was "putting us in a box" so to speak on how we could deal with coaches...

And what the memo said was....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

The officials that will not handle them are not going to be solved in a letter or a directive. There are going to be officials that are not capable to handle those situations. Remember these are judgment calls and it is really hard to tell people how to use their judgment in difficult situations. Even we talking about this hear is not going to advance some people that are reading this.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

We are also talking about a freshman coach. Which means they will not see the most experienced and confident officials around. I worked a freshman game last night and neither coach said a word to either me or my partner. My partner had much less experience than I did, but because of his normal profession, he had a certain confidence that the coaches left me and him alone. Afterwards the coaches thought we were some of the best officials they had seen at that level. I am sure other officials at the same level of my partner would not have been able to handle the game or have the level of consistency that made my job much easier for the two games we worked.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

Whether an official thinks me and others can handle the situation is still not the issue from my point of view. All officials are not the same and no matter what you put in a letter are not going to completely change how different officials handle these types of situations. Coaches just need to know when they roll the dice they might just crap out. If they do not want to get hit with a technical foul, then shut up and no one can fairly stick you.

Peace

[cropduster]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

I like this. JR's right, the high time guys can (or should) take care of things. Yet, many times the less experienced refs are afraid to rock the boat. They're afraid of being cut. IMHO, the letter gives them the license to take care of business. It encourages it and explains why. It puts everyone on the same page and then if some coach wants to complain or cut an official for taking care of business, his assignor should give the ref the "atta boy". He should also remind the coach, in a friendly way, about the letter.

barryb