Bad situation . . . Could've been worse!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Use rule 10-4-4 then. They're out of their "bench area" as defined in rule 1-13-3, aren't they? The OP said that they were more than halfway across the court. Same difference.

Except we're talking about 10-4-4(c), the TO exception.

Ok, I know, we can then get into the area allowed for players during a TO, and we might be able to argue if they were outside that as well. Or we could argue if the players that were already more than halfway across the court might've been the 5 current players coming out of the huddle after the TO. We don't have all the information as to where the players were before this started, or how it actually transpired. But I guess what I'm saying is if we have the situation where the coaches (and officials) are keeping the players out of the stands, and they listen, I don't see a downside to not penalizing them. What if this happened during play, perhaps a dead ball, and you can see the players stand up, but the coaches are telling them to get back? What if a couple of players have one foot in-bounds before they're yanked back? Without having all the appropriate information (and, of course, the tape), I'm not sure calling all those T's makes the game better. Getting the knuckleheads in the stands outta there certainly makes it better. Maybe even make them eat more hot dogs on the way out?...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Except we're talking about 10-4-4(c), the TO exception.

Ok, I know, we can then get into the area allowed for players during a TO, and we might be able to argue if they were outside that as well. Or we could argue if the players that were already more than halfway across the court might've been the 5 current players coming out of the huddle after the TO.

Um, yeah, that's exactly what I said. You had 10 team members out of their bench area. It doesn't really matter if they were "players" or not.

POE 4 in the 2003-04 rulebook said "Teams should remain in the bench area during 60- and 30-second time-outs".

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, yeah, that's exactly what I said. You had 10 team members out of their bench area. It doesn't really matter if they were "players" or not.

POE 4 in the 2003-04 rulebook said "Teams should remain in the bench area during 60- and 30-second time-outs".

First off, the OP said 10 players were on the floor. We don't know if all 10 were outside the bench area. And, where is that bench area? In 1-13-3 it lists a rather large area on the floor.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Shoot 20 technical FT's and give team A the ball at center.

Btw, I assume if I were to have A shoot 20 FT's, I would have a real grumpy assignor to deal with.

Bowling is a much more civilized sport. When was the last time you heard of a fight breaking out at a bowling tournament?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

1) First off, the OP said 10 players were on the floor. We don't know if all 10 were outside the bench area. And, where is that bench area? In 1-13-3 it lists a rather large area on the floor.

2) Btw, I assume if I were to have A shoot 20 FT's, I would have a real grumpy assignor to deal with.

3) Bowling is a much more civilized sport. When was the last time you heard of a fight breaking out at a bowling tournament?

1) We sureasheck do know that the 10 were outside the bench area. The bench area only extends onto the court as far as the closest FT lane line to their bench. The OP said that they were more than half-way across the court.

2) Yup, anybody handing out 20FT's in that situation would probably make a grumpy assignor even more grumpy. I'm just arguing rules-wise.

3) Bowling is great. Gets the kids off the streets and into the alleys.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) We sureasheck do know that the 10 were outside the bench area. The bench area only extends onto the court as far as the closest FT lane line to their bench. The OP said that they were more than half-way across the court.

Yabut, we still don't know how many. The OP said they stopped players who were more than halfway across the floor. They also said there were 10 players on the floor. Who was where? We can assume, but we don't know without watching it when it shows up on YouTube.

The part that muddied the issue for me was the fact it occured during a TO. If it had been a live ball situation, I don't think I could disagree with your rules cites. Yes, players need to be within the "bench area" during a TO. But what if a coach tells the team, "Get your heads out of your a$$es!!", and that's it? Now they start to walk out on the floor because they're done with the TO. Do I wait for them to step out of that bench area and start whacking? Probably not. I also don't think this is an obvious fight situation either. So given all the mud in the water, I'm willing to give bigdogrunnin the benefit of the doubt. Of course, I'm not his grumpy old assignor, so he will have to live with what he/she says.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

3) Bowling is great. Gets the kids off the streets and into the alleys.

You know, I now have that queasy feeling in my stomach, just like after eating a few hot dogs. Thanks alot.

[jcarter]

Bowling is a much more civilized sport. When was the last time you heard of a fight breaking out at a bowling tournament?[/QUOTE]




Sorry, but we just had a fight at our bowling alley last Saturday. Not real sure if the fight was over bowling or beer but it still took place in the bowling alley.

[jcarter]

Back to the topic at hand.

I am the new guy and do not have my rules book with me so I can not quote specific areas of the rule book. I believe that it says in there that we as officials of the game have the authority to make dicisions on situations that may not be specifically covered in the rule book.

Taking that into consideration and that this is a JV game, I think we would have to take into consideration here what do we do to make sure the kids are safe and that the integrity to the game is upheld.

I believe this is one situation that you would have to deffinately be there to determine what each of us would do in this case but I can deffinately see where what the original poster did would work and still be within the rules. I can also see where completely stopping the game would be within the rules.

I am some what new to basketball but have been officiating baseball/softball for many years at many different levels and use to be a state UIC for one organization, Far to often I would see my guys enforcing the steed fast written rule instead of the intent of the rule.

let the flames begin.