NCAA men: player control if the player has the ball (doesn't
include airborne shooter). So, if the foul is before the
ball is released then it's a PC & the shot does not count.
If the ball is released before the airborne player commits
a foul it's a common foul, as Chuck points out. Score the
basket. Also, since it's a common foul you go down the
other end & shoot if the team fouled is in the bonus. I've
never seen this happen. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your right this is a common foul (a push) in NCAA rules. In this play I would count the basket, (which I have had to do in a game) shoot the "T", then go and shoot the 1 and 1 if in the bonus, or go to the arrow for poss. after the "T".

Chuck is correct. The only foul that would cancel the basket would be a player control foul by the shooter.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

If the ball is released before the airborne player commits a foul it's a common foul, as Chuck points out. Score the basket. Also, since it's a common foul you go down the other end & shoot if the team fouled is in the bonus. I've never seen this happen.

This actually happened to me in one of my first college games. It was a community college 2-man game and I was lead. Play came right at me and it was right out of the casebook. A1 goes airborne, releases shot, A1 displaces B1, whistle, ball enters basket.

First season doing NCAA, and I immediately put the hand behind my head. (I know, wrong mechanic.) Had to put the fist back up, bang the basket home, point the other way and put up the 1-and-1 signal. It was really fun to talk about after the game. I felt I'd really blown it, but my partner assured me that nobody else knew what I'd done.

Chuck

Shucks, Chuck,
At the minimum you now own that mechanic.
Good job.
mick

I thought this post was about slapping the backboard. How did we get to the player control controversy? Just wondering!

Your right this is a common foul (a push) in NCAA rules. In this play I would count the basket, (which I have had to do in a game) shoot the "T", then go and shoot the 1 and 1 if in the bonus, or go to the arrow for poss. after the "T".

[/B][/QUOTE]

Very nice, you've tied together the entire thread to create
an interesting play. So we got: After A1 releases for a
shot and still airborne he fouls B1. While the shot is in
the air B2 intentionally slaps the backboard. The ball
goes in. B is in the bonus. WTF happens now?

Answer: NCAA men: as you described but why are we going to
the arrow after the T?

NFHS & NCAA women: PC on A1, wave off the basket, A shoots 2 for the T, no bonus shots for B. B gets the ball at the
endline spot for NCAA (point of interuption), A gets the
ball at midcourt for NFHS.

What do you think? Do we all agree?

I agree with you on the NFHS and NCAA women, about the ball going to B after the "T" is shot. For NCAA men you have to go to the point of interuption, that is when the "T" is called. Well in the above mentioned play the ball was in the air on a shot, and since there is no team control at this point on the shot, you need to go to the arrow for point of interuption. Does that make sence to you?

Slap Backboard
 

In college the tendency, at least what I have observed, is not to call a technical foul for the slap unless the glass is broken or it caused the backboard to break off the wall or supports.:) In college, new rule last year, I think, if the slap caused the ball to come off the rim or out of the cylinder, you can count the basket ("The Bobby Knight Rule"). However, in high shcool, we do not have such a rule. So if you do not call the 'T' and the ball comes out because to the shake-rattle-or roll. You have egg on your face or a very late whistle. I have worked with partners who work college and refuse to call the 'T' for the slap no matter what. The earlier post that said after calling the 'T' they had no more problems with slapping the board. I think that is the intent of the rule. The NFHS rules committee, wisely I migh add, inserted the word intentionally slapping the BB. Now it is the officials judgement as to whether the 'T' is called or you pass on it. If you pass you may have to explain it to the coach.

I was not thinking of a player control foul which always cancels the basket in NFHS.

Just six more days til my first high school games. Anxious, but a little jittery too. It's been a long spring & summer.

NCAA Women also use the Point of Interruption after a T, so I don't see how the administration would be different in Women's and Men's...if we are going to the arrow in Men's, wouldn't we go to the arrow in Women's?? Since there was no control (player or team) during the shot, we have to go to the arrow in both, correct? Help me out here, please!!

First off for Jerry, there is no rule in college to count the basket if it doesn't go in. The only new rule last year was the point of interruption on T's.

For Rocky, yes you are right about the point of interruption for women as well. So yes they would go to the arrow as well. Sorry for this mistake.

Yes, it does make sense now that I think about it but I'm
not sure it's fair (I know, I know) or within the intent
of the rules. I'm gonna ask some questions about this
one.

Jerry, the "Bobby Knight Rule" relates to BI, not
backboard striking, so there's never a T involved (well, not since that well known first time!)

NCAA 4-4-2:

"Basket interference also occurs when a movabe basket ring
is pulled down by a player so that it contacts the ball
before the ring returns to its original position."

Whew...thanks Dennis...had me worried there for a minute. I was pretty comfy - thinking I had that Point of Interruptios stuff handled, and then you threw me for a loop...thanks for clarifying!!

dj

no control?
 

In the women's collegiate game, how can you say that the foul occured with no control? If there is an airborne shooter rule, then there is control by the shooter until the shooter returns to the floor.

This means the T in question would have happened while there was possession. Thus, under the point of interruption rule, B would get the ball after the T.

No that is wrong ... even though there can still be a charge in this case, there is still no team control.

NCAA rule book Team control continues until the ball is in flight during a try for a goal, or an opponent secures control or the ball becomes dead.

So even though you may have a charge, there is no team control, it is just player control. This is why you would go to the arrow.

This is why they always say at the next level you need to learn how to hold you whistle just a tad bit longer. If the ref would have just waited on the "T" for a second or 2 longer, then you wouldn't have all of this confussion. If the basket goes, maybe let the slap go, but tell the player next time you got them. If the ball doesn't go, then come out with the "T".

Re: no control?
 

I don't think anyone said the airborne player rule does
not apply in women's NCAA.


As far as I'm concerned all the
talk about what happens after the T in this case
is related to NCAA mens only.


oops, this is wrong, I take it back!

[Edited by Dan_ref on Sep 28th, 2001 at 02:12 PM]