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Originally Posted by rainmaker
Basketball is not a "subjective" sport, any more than football, soccer or golf. The officials exercise a certain amount of judgment in the very small gray areas of the rules, but the sport itself is very objective.
There is, in fact, one right way to call a game. That is to see to it that the team who is playing the best basketball in this game, wins. And to see that the game is within the boundaries of fair play.
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Stop right there! Officials exercise a certian amount of judgement in the very small grey areas of the rules? So when you say, there is in fact one right way to call a game and that is to see to it that the team who plays the best wins. Okay, using that mentality, what the hell happen in the super bowl? The biggest game of the year. The best football team that day did not win the super bowl. Was it the officials judgement, subjectivity or objectivity that caused them to rule that Ben R. crossed the goalline and awarded a touchdown?
My point here is if you want to say judgement, fine, say it. When you screw up and make the wrong call, it's the wrong call no matter what hypothesis you want to place on it, and sometimes the wrong team wins the game because of it.
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There is some judgment involved for the officials in determining what constitutes a foul in certain cases, and in determining whether or not there is an illegal advantage gained, or an illegal disadvantage conferred, but that is not subjectivity, it is judgment, and those two things are different.
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If you want to say they are different, okay, but I think that is beyond the intellect of this board.
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Subjectivity means, "whether I like something, or not", "whether something looks nice to me, or doesn't". That's not the same as judgment. Judgment means making a determination as to where the boundaries are in defining something. It either is a foul or it isn't, and the line needs to be firm, but the line can move slightly according to the judgment of the official. But subjectivity does NOT play a part in the determination. "I don't like that play" is much different from "I always judge that to be a foul".
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That is the best BS that's ever been written on this site and not challenged. Whether I like something or not? Come on, do I look like I was born yesterday? Okay, ponder this. If I like this contact to be a foul, I'm going to call it a foul. If in my judgement, I believe that to be a foul, I'm going to call it a foul. Both hypothesis are correct! Did I go over your head on that one? In order for me to past judgement, there must be some subjectivity to my decision. You can't seperate them IMO. Sometimes, we call fouls that aren't fouls, or pass interfences that aren't past interferences. Did I think in my mind that that was a foul, or did I use poor judgement. Was it my poor judgement or my biased subjectivity that caused me to put air in the whistle and indicate foul. Who cares. I don't think the general public cares as long as you get the right call.
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I suppose some folks won't understand this, but it's important to try. No one wants an official that works from his or her whims and tastes.
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Here's the deal. All officials work from there whims and personnel tastes as well as trying to exercise proper judgement in their decisions. You can't seperate the two. There is subjectivity in everything you do in life. You trying to tell me you don't use it when you officiate basketball? I will telll you, you are a liar. How do you decide which shoes to put on for your games? Do I like this shoe or that shoe. How do you decide if the girl carried the ball? Was it marginal? If it's marginal than it's certainly subjective to how I feel about what I just saw, and when you enter how quick I have to make a decision, subjectivity certainly enters into the picture.
Consider the double dribble I called on the player late in the game. I was behind the player but the player did something that was not natural to me. His feet got crossed up with his next move. Trailing the play because I was the trail and now I'm the new lead. I had to make a quick decision. I didn't like what he just did with the ball, subjective. In order for that to happen, he had to have dribble twice, no, I did not see it, but my subjectivity, my belief is that there is no way he could have done that without double dribbling. So in my judgement, I beleive the player double dribble. The player made it look real good because he covered up his mistake very well, it almost went undetected but my subjectivity (I didn't like what he just did with the ball, it didn't look right, it didn't pass the look test) allowed me to determine (correctly in this case) that he double dribble the ball.
Wow, that was the best BS line I've seen in a long time, and you guys just ate it up. Wow, I think I'm in another world when people start talking like that and it doesn't get challenged. You all must think alike out here. A wise man once said. If everyone thinks alike, then no one is really thinking.
