Which Way do you prefer????

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's straight up and down, no need to call it back. If it bounces, then the jumpers can grab it legally. Might not look good, but it's legal and there's no reason to retoss this.

6-3-6 The tossed ball must be touched by one or both of the jumpers after it reaches its highest point. If the ball contacts the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the referee shall toss it again.

And if they didn't attempt to touch the ball, then I believe we "order" them to both jump and attempt to touch the ball on that next toss.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rpirtle

So why do these get called back...??? The jumpers can still tap the ball after they land...can't they...??? I know it looks bad...and not a good way to start. But should these really get called back? Just asking...

This is a good question and in my opinion the answer is to call it back, retoss because the ball was thrown too high. Unless the ball is thrown way too high, this is not a bad thing. If I'm U1 or U2, we are re-jumping that. The reason is we're starting this game on a good note, good toss, good jump, etc. What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point. If this can't be done, you got guys swinging at it on the way down, just like you said, a mess, and it looks bad and it also looks like you don't know what you are not doing if you're not calling it.

If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you do blow your whistle, it swings completely the other way. I'm going to assume that this guy knows his stuff and yes, I'm impressed! Hope that helps.

Remember, it's sometimes the little things that can get you from one step on the ladder to the next.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

!) This is a good question and in my opinion the answer is to call it back, retoss because the ball was thrown too high. Unless the ball is thrown way too high, this is not a bad thing. If I'm U1 or U2, we are re-jumping that. The reason is we're starting this game on a good note, good toss, good jump, etc. What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point. If this can't be done, you got guys swinging at it on the way down, just like you said, a mess, and it looks bad and it also looks like you don't know what you are not doing if you're not calling it.

2) If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you do blow your whistle, it swings completely the other way. I'm going to assume that this guy knows his stuff and yes, I'm impressed! Hope that helps.

1) I hate to break it to you, Old One, but the objective is to hit the ball AFTER it reaches it highest point and it IS on the way down. Sez so right in the rules--specifically rule 6-3-6. It's been the same rule since the days of the peachbasket too. Of course, you wouldn't know that, would you? As we've determined many times in the past, you aren't an official, have never been an official and you don't own a rule or case book. Care to cite that rule for us verbatim from your rule book?

2) Fanboys and trolls don't get a chance to critique officials, except to other fanboys and trolls.

I hate to admit it, but you're not even a good troll anymore either. What you post is so completely wrong rules-wise and also so patently stoopid that even the newbies here know enough to not take you seriously.

Why don't you try the Baseball forum again? You've already been laughed off of it once, but maybe they've forgotten you by now.

Naw, on second thought, fuggedaboutit. Back to McGriffs where you belong. Shoo, shoo......

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Old School

If I'm U1 or U2, we are re-jumping that. The reason is we're starting this game on a good note, good toss, good jump, etc.

And you think it sounds a good note to blow back the jump because the jumpers mis-timed their jumps?

What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point.

What you need to consider is a rulebook. That might be the jumpers' objective, but I couldn't care less about that. That's none of our business as officials. Toss it, and let them figure it out.

If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing.

Guess what I'm assuming about you?

[rpirtle]

Originally Posted by Old School

...What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point. If this can't be done, you got guys swinging at it on the way down, just like you said, a mess, and it looks bad and it also looks like you don't know what you are not doing if you're not calling it.

If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you do blow your whistle, it swings completely the other way. I'm going to assume that this guy knows his stuff and yes, I'm impressed! Hope that helps.

Remember, it's sometimes the little things that can get you from one step on the ladder to the next.

Peace

I appreciate your responses. But I'm still a little unsure as to "WHY" you think this should be called back. Are you saying that this is a personal preference because of how it "looks"? If so I can understand how you could feel this way. As I've said, I think it looks bad also. But by doing this aren't you then imposing your own will on the game?

In my opinion (since noone asked... ) this is not a judgement call. If both Players either jumped too early or if we have overestimated their jumping ability and they miss the toss at its highest point then so be it. If the players then legally tap the ball before the ball hits the floor we have a good opening toss (relatively speaking). If team A gained possession during this toss would you take the ball away from them simply because you didn't like the way the toss "looked"...??? If I'm the coach of Team A I'm going ballistic about that time.

If I'm in the stands and I am the evaluator when the official takes the ball away from Team A because he (or she) didn't like the way the toss "looked"...he (or she) would probably get "dinged". Mostly because I think this just compounds the problem. You already started the game with a messy toss...you tossed too high or they just missed it...It doesn't matter. I don't think we should compound the situation by taking the ball away from a team that legally gained possession simply because we didn't like the way it looked...

But that's just me. And I don't know everything...yet. But I'm hoping you guys will help me remedy that... Good discussion and good responses. Thanks for letting me participate.

[Old School]

Accept you blast it before anybody gets control. Remember, both jumpers missed it, beep! If the toss is too high and both jumpers miss it. Nothing bad has happen, just re-toss it, and not so high the next time. It would be unfair in my opinion to let any team receive the ball when the jump was not executed correctly.

Don't beat yourself up on at it's highest point or after it's highest point, these points are truely mute (and anal) which is exactly what I recommend you do for these other posters who choose to spread hate and dislike for their fellow officials. You're going to run into a lot of people like these guys in your quest to be a good official and climb the labber.

They hate on me so bad because they can not break my spirits. Have a nice day...Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Old School

Accept you blast it . . . these points are truely mute . . .
They hate on me so bad

God, I hate idiots.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

They hate on me so bad because they can not break my spirits.

Um, does that mean you're not going to cite NFHS rule 6-3-6 for us?

Then how about maybe citing case book play 6.3.7(a)? That case play gives a definitive answer to your previous assertation that a two-handed tap by a jumper on a jump ball was a violation.

Show us that you are a real, live, honest-to-goodness official, OldOne. Prove to us that you do own a current NFHS rule book and case book.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

God, I hate idiots.

Not worth getting upset about, ScrappyDoo. He's just your average, everyday, run-of-the-mill troll.

[mj]

Originally Posted by Old School

Accept you blast it before anybody gets control. Remember, both jumpers missed it, beep! If the toss is too high and both jumpers miss it. Nothing bad has happen, just re-toss it, and not so high the next time. It would be unfair in my opinion to let any team receive the ball when the jump was not executed correctly.

Wow, you must blow back about every other jump then. Get on with the game, no one will remember it in less than 10 seconds.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by mj

Wow, you must blow back about every other jump then. Get on with the game, no one will remember it in less than 10 seconds.

Actually, it's just the opposite, it's rare to see both jumpers miss the tip. But it does happen, and in that .01% of the time, beep! Retoss! I saw a bad toss last night, not high enough but I did not call it back because both jumpers hit it at about it's highest point, I guess, game on.

[SeahawkSanders]

I use the two hand, underhand method. I've tried the one-handed overhead push and I am horrible at it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point. If this can't be done, you got guys swinging at it on the way down, just like you said, a mess, and it looks bad and it also looks like you don't know what you are not doing if you're not calling it.

If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you do blow your whistle, it swings completely the other way. I'm going to assume that this guy knows his stuff and yes, I'm impressed! Hope that helps.

Let's change this just for fun.
"What you need to consider is that the objective of the free throw is for the player to make the shot. If this can't be done, you have players flailing for the ball on its way down, it's just a mess and it looks bad and it looks like the refs don't know what they're doing."

This may sound stupid, but so does your post. You don't call back a legitimate toss because the players missed it. You let it play out. If I ever have a U call back my toss because the players missed it and looked awkward, we're having some unpleasant words at half time.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This may sound stupid, but so does your post. You don't call back a legitimate toss because the players missed it. You let it play out. If I ever have a U call back my toss because the players missed it and looked awkward, we're having some unpleasant words at half time.

Glad you bought this up. Another thing to consider. There are some better than thou officials out here who go by the thinking that only the R calls back a bad toss. I'm not in total disagreement on this because nobody knows better that the toss is off than the person that tossed it. However, my problem is by the time the R gets the whistle back in his mouth and ready to blow, the ball is already half way down the court, and more often than not, the R will just let it go. Which is why I blast it right away to stop the play.

To the second point. If you toss the ball too high, and both jumpers miss it. I will blow it and dare you to say something to me about it in the locker room. If I'm a clincian, I going to take a point off for throwing the ball too high, although I will admit. I would take more points off for a toss too short and you got players that can jump.

Actually, I think you need to give this some thought. When evaluating who may go to the playoff's and who's going to be the lead official. I bet there might be discussions on who tosses good and who doesn't, and this person will be selected the R. What I'm saying is if you got a strong 3-person crew and the decision is being made, who's going to be the lead official in this crew, everything else being equal of course. I would not doubt that the decision to be the R might come down to the person who tosses it the best.

Just a thought....

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you toss the ball too high, and both jumpers miss it. I will blow it and dare you to say something to me about it in the locker room. If I'm a clincian, I going to take a point off for throwing the ball too high, although I will admit.

You cannot toss the ball too high, since by rule you are supposed to toss it higher than either jumper can jump.

6-3-4 . . . The referee shall then toss the ball upward between the jumpers in a plane at right angles to the sidelines. The toss shall be to a height greater than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.