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Wed Jan 19, 2000, 09:03pm
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i am a first year official. I was told by a more experienced official that if a player directs a curse to me, it should be flagrant technical & should be ejected from the game. i thought a cursing is an unsportsmanlike foul rule 10-4-1.
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Thu Jan 20, 2000, 12:38am
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quote: By rule, you and the other official may both be correct. May I recommend rule 4-19-4 for the definiton of 'flagrant'.
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Thu Jan 20, 2000, 09:53am
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Agreed. The severity of the curse and how it was directed at me would dictate whether it's "just" a T or a flagrant T. But...if it's quite personal in nature and vulgar by most standards, he's out of here! We can't tolerate personal attacks on the officials, even verbally. If it's a fairly "mild" curse directed at a call I just made, he'll probably get to still play, though I may have a tactful word of advice to him after I assess the T.
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Thu Jan 20, 2000, 05:40pm
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The guidelines we give our officials is that if the profanity is the result of the player being mad at himself for making a bad play and he says is "under his breath" and no one in the stands hears it, usually you let it go, unless it is repeated. Anything above that is a T. ANY profanity directed at you is a flagrant T with ejection.
There are some rec leagues we do that have a rule that ANY profanity by a player or coach, no matter what the reason or circumstance, is a flagrant T with ejection.
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Thu Jan 20, 2000, 11:59pm
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quote: Mark, I strongly disagree!!! Never judge a technical foul for profanity or obscene language 'on whether anyone besides yourself HEARD it'! If you hear the language, and its obscene .. stick the player with a technical foul .. period. By your definition, you'll allow one player to curse in a 'loud' gym, but if you're in a gym that is 'quiet', that player gets "stuck". And they both said the same thing at the same sound level. If you heard it ... another player heard it as well. Also, not all profanity that is 'directed at you is a flagrant T with ejection'. What if you blow a call (and we do)and you KNOW you did, and the kid responds, "damn ref, I didn't touch him!" Two wrongs never make a right. If the intent of the rule was to disqualify a player for an obscenity directed at an official, it would be so stated as an absolute ejection. The flagrant should be called when its abusive, vulgar, extreme, and/or persistent. Personally, I wish the NF rule was the same as some of your 'rec leagues'. But until then .... KDM
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Fri Jan 21, 2000, 01:52am
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I am a basketball official for Rec League.
The saying is.. Any cussing, disrespecfully addressing the officials is an automatic "T" I am only 15 years old and have heard alot of **** from youth coaches, and have T'd them up every time. The season started 3 weeks before christmas, and so far thats 6 techs. The persons deserved each one.
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Fri Jan 21, 2000, 05:38pm
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quote: If you wouldn't allow them to act that way in your own home then the same should stand true for the court!
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Fri Jan 21, 2000, 06:31pm
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quote: We don't wear shoes in my house ......... KDM
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Fri Jan 21, 2000, 07:33pm
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I've been officiation H.S. Basketball for 11 years and have seen varying degrees of tolerence from different officials with varying degrees of talent and/or ability. We must come up with our own "boundaries" so to speak and what to do when a coach or player crosses those boundaries. I will give a coach, usually and adult, much more real estate than a player, usually a teen ager. In most of my games the players and I are having a great time and they know what is expected of them. This is not to say that we're out there clowing around but just enjoying the contest.
When I was a newer official I don't think I gave a "T" for 3 years. When the Coaches were getting on me about a call they were probably right! I just needed to stay focused on the game. My philosophy of the players showing respect stays the same. There is no room for disrespect from these young athletes. In some ways we are molding their character through athletics and would be doing them a diservice otherwise. KDM states he might let a player say "damn ref I didn't touch him". That may be his boundary. I may let it go if the player says it walking away under his breath. BUT, my "T"s come from actions more than words. i.e. Unsportsmanlike Conduct. It is the conduct that will get them the "T". If a player stares me down and says the same it's automatic--"T" time. I had a player the other night get called for a traveling violation. He stared at me and said something like "that wasn't traveling" I gave him a chance to walk away and show good sportsmanship but he continued to stare me down and threw his arms down in disgust. BOOM "T"! It was his action not words. During a time out the assistant coach for that player came over smiling saying what did he say. I smiled back and said "nothing coach, it was his actions" He got it, and returned to the bench. So I suggest, do not get hung up on what a player says as much as what he does. Sure credability comes in to play but in my opinion you will increase your credability by not allowing players to be unsportsmanlike.
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Fri Jan 21, 2000, 08:09pm
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quote: If a player mutters under his breath because he is mad at himself, we tell him to watch his language. A repeat offense by the same player gets a T. If we Teed up every high school player who said "damn" (which personally I don't consider an obscenity in and of itself) whenever he missed a layup, all games around here would be over in about 5 minutes. You may not think that's a good excuse, but it's the reality. Have I blown calls? Probably (ssshhhh - don't tell anybody), but that's absolutely no excuse for a player to swear at me. In fact, there is NO reason acceptable for a player or coach to swear at me. Automatic T every time regardless of reason. I had a player swear at me two weeks ago prior to the game because I told him to take his earring off. After he swore, I told him he could keep it on after all. Of course, he didn't play.
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