NCAA Pretest

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by smoref

A1 is awarded a one-and-one. While A1 is in the act of shooting and before releasing the ball, B1 steps into the lane followed by A2. The official inadvertently blows the whistle after the release of the shot; the try is unsuccessful.

B) Cancel the free throw and begin the one-and-one again with a delayed violation on B1.


A rule reference would be appreciated.

NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.

However, in the AR we have the whistle before the release of the FT. The question has the whistle after the release of the FT. Shouldn't that make a difference?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Lotto

However, in the AR we have the whistle before the release of the FT. The question has the whistle after the release of the FT. Shouldn't that make a difference?

It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.

[smoref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.

No games with you this year so far......

I am bummed

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by smoref

No games with you this year so far......

I am bummed

Hey Scotty,

Maybe rockyroad put you in as one of his blocks.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.

Why?

If you look at 7-21 AR 161, you'll see that an inadvertent whistle is handled differently depending on whether whether it occurs before or after the ball is released on a try. If it occurs before the ball is released, then team A still has possession and we give the ball back to A. If it occurs after the release, the shot "counts" and we ignore the whistle if the shot goes in, and go to the AP if it misses.

Based on this, it would seem that the FT attempt would not be canceled by the inadvertent whistle and we'd enforce the violation by B1 by giving the ball back to A1 for the first FT of a one-and-one, but with no delayed violation against B1.

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by Lotto

Why?

If you look at 7-21 AR 161, you'll see that an inadvertent whistle is handled differently depending on whether whether it occurs before or after the ball is released on a try. If it occurs before the ball is released, then team A still has possession and we give the ball back to A. If it occurs after the release, the shot "counts" and we ignore the whistle if the shot goes in, and go to the AP if it misses.

Based on this, it would seem that the FT attempt would not be canceled by the inadvertent whistle and we'd enforce the violation by B1 by giving the ball back to A1 for the first FT of a one-and-one, but with no delayed violation against B1.

But the action of the play itself dictates that B is the correct answer. Sometimes you have to invoke the "spirit of the rule" clause in your thinking.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

But the action of the play itself dictates that B is the correct answer. Sometimes you have to invoke the "spirit of the rule" clause in your thinking.

It's exactly the spirit of the rule that led me to question this. Had there been no inadvertent whistle, A1 would be given the first shot of a one-and-one as the result of B2's violation. Since the whistle occurred after the ball was released (and therefore could not have had any affect on A1's attempt), the result of that attempt should be allowed to stand on its merits.

Let's take the violation out of the picture and propose another situation. A1 is awarded one FT. A1 releases the ball on the FT attempt. The ball hits the rim and bounces straight up. An official blows his/her whistle at that point. Would you cancel the FT and give A1 another FT if the ball goes in? What if the ball doesn't go in?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Lotto

Why?

.

Because I said so...just kidding. Actually, because I already took the test, put B as my answer, and got it right.

And Scott, regardless of what Z says, I didn't block you...the boss said something about having too many good-looking officials on the court distracting all those women coaches - getting too many complaints about that, I guess...

Shutup Jr, just shutup!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.

Can you post that AR? I don't have that in my book from '06.

[Raymond]

A.R. 178. A1 is attempting the second of two free throws. B2 violates the lane followed by a lane violation by A2. The official inadvertently blows his/her whistle, which stops play, before A1 releases the ball for his/her attempt. The officials re-administer the freethrow attempt by placing the ball at the disposal of A1 for his/her free-throw attempt. Before A1’s release of the ball for his/her try, B3 commits a lane violation.

RULING:
When A1’s free throw attempt is unsuccessful, he/she shall be awarded a substitute free substitute free throw. When A1’s attempt is successful, B2’s violation shall be ignored.

Not exactly the same scenario as the initial post, but kinda in the same spirit. But I understand Lotto's point. The question or the choices probably should be worded differently.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Can you post that AR? I don't have that in my book from '06.

A.R. 178. A1 is attempting the second of two free throws. B2 violates the lane followed by a lane violation by A2. The official inadvertently blows his/her whistle, which stops play, before A1 releases the ball for his/her attempt. The officials re-administer the free-throw attempt by placing the ball at the disposal of A1 for his/her free-throw attempt. Before A1’s release of the ball for his/her try, B3 commits a lane violation. RULING: When A1’s free throw attempt is unsuccessful, he/she shall be awarded a substitute free throw. When A1’s attempt is successful, B2’s violation shall be ignored.

[ChuckElias]

Thanks for posting the AR, guys. But it doesn't help. In our sitch, the whistle blew while the ball was in the air. That means the ball stays live until the try ends. That means that he got the first FT, so the penalty for the defensive violation is assessed just as if there was no whistle, IMHO.

[smoref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Thanks for posting the AR, guys. But it doesn't help. In our sitch, the whistle blew while the ball was in the air. That means the ball stays live until the try ends. That means that he got the first FT, so the penalty for the defensive violation is assessed just as if there was no whistle, IMHO.

That is exactly what I was thinking, but that was not a possible answer on the test.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Thanks for posting the AR, guys. But it doesn't help. In our sitch, the whistle blew while the ball was in the air. That means the ball stays live until the try ends. That means that he got the first FT, so the penalty for the defensive violation is assessed just as if there was no whistle, IMHO.

That's what I was sayin'!!