The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 09:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 121
NCAA Pretest

I am working on my NCAA pretest and a I have a question. The correct answer does not seem to be supplied. A little help would be appreciated. This is exactly how it is written.

A1 is awarded a one-and-one. While A1 is in the act of shooting and before releasing the ball, B1 steps into the lane followed by A2. The official inadvertently blows the whistle after the release of the shot; the try is unsuccessful.

A) Count the free throw and award the second of the bonus.
B) Cancel the free throw and begin the one-and-one again with a delayed violation on B1.
C) Cancel the free throw and award Team A the ball out of bounds nearest to where the violation occurred.
D) Award the ball to the team entitled to the arrow under the alternating-possession procedure.

A rule reference would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
I didn't like the way this one is worded either. The ball clearly does not become dead on the whistle (6-6-1a). However, we have a delayed violation against the defense, which gives the shooter a replacement FT under the same conditions as the original FT (9-2-4b). That would be a 1-and-1.

So the correct answer should be: cancel the FT and award A1 the first FT of a 1-and-1.

But that answer isn't on the list. So what are they looking for?

I put (B) b/c it's the only one that says A1 still gets a 1-and-1. But there shouldn't be any delayed violation. The "new" 1-and-1 is the penalty for the defensive violation.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:21am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,873
B1's actions caused A2 to violate, so no violation on A2.

A1 is still entitled to uninterrupted free-throw, and B1's violation is still subject to penalty. Therefore:

B) Cancel the free throw and begin the one-and-one again with a delayed violation on B1.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:26am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoref
A1 is awarded a one-and-one. While A1 is in the act of shooting and before releasing the ball, B1 steps into the lane followed by A2. The official inadvertently blows the whistle after the release of the shot; the try is unsuccessful.

B) Cancel the free throw and begin the one-and-one again with a delayed violation on B1.


A rule reference would be appreciated.
NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mid-Hudson valley, New York
Posts: 751
Send a message via AIM to Lotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.
However, in the AR we have the whistle before the release of the FT. The question has the whistle after the release of the FT. Shouldn't that make a difference?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:52am
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotto
However, in the AR we have the whistle before the release of the FT. The question has the whistle after the release of the FT. Shouldn't that make a difference?
It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.

No games with you this year so far......

I am bummed
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mid-Hudson valley, New York
Posts: 751
Send a message via AIM to Lotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
It should in our minds...but it doesn't. The correct answer is B.
Why?

If you look at 7-21 AR 161, you'll see that an inadvertent whistle is handled differently depending on whether whether it occurs before or after the ball is released on a try. If it occurs before the ball is released, then team A still has possession and we give the ball back to A. If it occurs after the release, the shot "counts" and we ignore the whistle if the shot goes in, and go to the AP if it misses.

Based on this, it would seem that the FT attempt would not be canceled by the inadvertent whistle and we'd enforce the violation by B1 by giving the ball back to A1 for the first FT of a one-and-one, but with no delayed violation against B1.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoref
No games with you this year so far......

I am bummed
Hey Scotty,

Maybe rockyroad put you in as one of his blocks.
__________________
"To learn, you have to listen. To improve, you have to try." (Thomas Jefferson)
Z
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotto
Why?

If you look at 7-21 AR 161, you'll see that an inadvertent whistle is handled differently depending on whether whether it occurs before or after the ball is released on a try. If it occurs before the ball is released, then team A still has possession and we give the ball back to A. If it occurs after the release, the shot "counts" and we ignore the whistle if the shot goes in, and go to the AP if it misses.

Based on this, it would seem that the FT attempt would not be canceled by the inadvertent whistle and we'd enforce the violation by B1 by giving the ball back to A1 for the first FT of a one-and-one, but with no delayed violation against B1.
But the action of the play itself dictates that B is the correct answer. Sometimes you have to invoke the "spirit of the rule" clause in your thinking.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 11:57am
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotto
Why?

.
Because I said so...just kidding. Actually, because I already took the test, put B as my answer, and got it right.

And Scott, regardless of what Z says, I didn't block you...the boss said something about having too many good-looking officials on the court distracting all those women coaches - getting too many complaints about that, I guess...

Shutup Jr, just shutup!!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 12:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mid-Hudson valley, New York
Posts: 751
Send a message via AIM to Lotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevzebra
But the action of the play itself dictates that B is the correct answer. Sometimes you have to invoke the "spirit of the rule" clause in your thinking.
It's exactly the spirit of the rule that led me to question this. Had there been no inadvertent whistle, A1 would be given the first shot of a one-and-one as the result of B2's violation. Since the whistle occurred after the ball was released (and therefore could not have had any affect on A1's attempt), the result of that attempt should be allowed to stand on its merits.

Let's take the violation out of the picture and propose another situation. A1 is awarded one FT. A1 releases the ball on the FT attempt. The ball hits the rim and bounces straight up. An official blows his/her whistle at that point. Would you cancel the FT and give A1 another FT if the ball goes in? What if the ball doesn't go in?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 12:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NCAA rule 9-2-4 AR178 might help.
Can you post that AR? I don't have that in my book from '06.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 01:09pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,873
A.R. 178. A1 is attempting the second of two free throws. B2 violates the lane followed by a lane violation by A2. The official inadvertently blows his/her whistle, which stops play, before A1 releases the ball for his/her attempt. The officials re-administer the freethrow attempt by placing the ball at the disposal of A1 for his/her free-throw attempt. Before A1’s release of the ball for his/her try, B3 commits a lane violation.

RULING:
When A1’s free throw attempt is unsuccessful, he/she shall be awarded a substitute free substitute free throw. When A1’s attempt is successful, B2’s violation shall be ignored.


Not exactly the same scenario as the initial post, but kinda in the same spirit. But I understand Lotto's point. The question or the choices probably should be worded differently.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 01:13pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 28, 2006, 01:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mid-Hudson valley, New York
Posts: 751
Send a message via AIM to Lotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Can you post that AR? I don't have that in my book from '06.
A.R. 178. A1 is attempting the second of two free throws. B2 violates the lane followed by a lane violation by A2. The official inadvertently blows his/her whistle, which stops play, before A1 releases the ball for his/her attempt. The officials re-administer the free-throw attempt by placing the ball at the disposal of A1 for his/her free-throw attempt. Before A1ís release of the ball for his/her try, B3 commits a lane violation. RULING: When A1ís free throw attempt is unsuccessful, he/she shall be awarded a substitute free throw. When A1ís attempt is successful, B2ís violation shall be ignored.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NCAA IFF U_of_I_Blue Softball 6 Mon May 02, 2005 10:36am
ncaa men v. fed jr Basketball 3 Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:11am
NF vs. NCAA JMN Football 7 Tue May 04, 2004 03:56pm
Tie up? (NCAA) Jay R Basketball 9 Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:01am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1