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-   -   Player control/Blocking foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/28531-player-control-blocking-foul.html)

RonRef Thu Sep 28, 2006 08:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
The offensive player is supposed to go someplace where there isn't another person standing! There's nothing anywhere in the rule book that gives the shooter the right to run up an opponent's back. I sincerely hope you are just yanking some chains, but it doesn't matter. Someone else can take this battle on. I'm going away for the weekend to relax a little and enjoy some beautiful coastal scenery. I hope you enjoy your Jr. Hi basketball season!
You are telling me that there aren't any other officials out there that pass on charges when the defender is right under the basket? Why does everyone need to get personal on this site when someone disagrees with someone else’s "opinion?" By the way I need a partner for my Jr. High game on Saturday, are you open to work with me?

bob jenkins Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRef
You are telling me that there aren't any other officials out there that pass on charges when the defender is right under the basket?
There are officials who do this, of course. By rule, they are wrong (except under some circumstances in NCAAW and NBA). Almost all officials (including me) ignore some rules, of course.

On the OP, I'd probably have a no-call, depending, of course, on the contact.

Kevzebra Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Not me!! It's true that a lot of refs have trouble with B/C and tend to bail with an easier blocking call, but that doesn't make it the right call. Whoever is behind is almost always at fault, just like in driving. It's really very simple.
I agree Rain! Another reason we miss the offensive/block call is that most officials center his/her attention on the offensive player and do not expand his/her vision to include the defensive players. If we all would take a "trail mentality" on the floor (not looking at just A1-B1) and look at the plays that may be coming our way, we would rarely miss these calls!

ChuckElias Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRef
You are telling me that there aren't any other officials out there that pass on charges when the defender is right under the basket?
No. In real life, most officials would pass (assuming the contact by the shooter is not severe). By rule, it's a player control foul. But you said, it would be a block. Of all the options available to us, the one thing that it isn't, is a block. JMO.

And, by the way, many (if not most) officials outside the WNBA/NBA/NCAAW don't really understand the "under the basket" rule.

Kevzebra Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
No. In real life, most officials would pass (assuming the contact by the shooter is not severe). By rule, it's a player control foul. But you said, it would be a block. Of all the options available to us, the one thing that it isn't, is a block. JMO.

And, by the way, many (if not most) officials outside the WNBA/NBA/NCAAW don't really understand the "under the basket" rule.
By rule? So you are telling me that men's college officials will call an offensive when a player is directly under the basket? ::coughcoughcoughchokechokechoke::

In the womens college game (and by the way the BEST officials come from this side) if a player is positioned under the basket, it is a no call or a block. This is a non position.

Dan_ref Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Why? :confused:

You wouldn't allow somebody to push an opponent from behind during rebounding action to get a put-back. Why would you allow a player to push somebody from behind for the initial shot? That doesn't make much sense to me.
Maybe because some tend to view a push in the back on a rebound differently than this particular play, even more so if A1 runs into B1 as he's dunking the ball.

GoodwillRef Thu Sep 28, 2006 09:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevzebra
By rule? So you are telling me that men's college officials will call an offensive when a player is directly under the basket? ::coughcoughcoughchokechokechoke::

In the womens college game (and by the way the BEST officials come from this side) if a player is positioned under the basket, it is a no call or a block. This is a non position.

This is not totally correct. If the dribbler comes from the baseline on a drive to the basket and the defense is under the hoop it is then a foul on the offense and other situation it would be a block. It is never a "no call" if there is a train wreck in women's basketball.

Jurassic Referee Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRef
I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.
Disagree. I think that most officials actually know the rules and would get it right.

Kevzebra Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef
This is not totally correct. If the dribbler comes from the baseline on a drive to the basket and the defense is under the hoop it is then a foul on the offense and other situation it would be a block. It is never a "no call" if there is a train wreck in women's basketball.
I was under the assumption we were talking coming from in front of the basket. Sorry for the ommission.

ChuckElias Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevzebra
By rule? So you are telling me that men's college officials will call an offensive when a player is directly under the basket? ::coughcoughcoughchokechokechoke::
By rule, in the men's game, that would still be a player control foul. Would they call it? Many do not.

Jurassic Referee Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
By rule, in the men's game, that would still be a player control foul. Would they call it? Many do not.
But, as you said before, the one thing that it wouldn't be is a block.

Camron Rust Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRef
I really have a hard problem with a big "lug" standing under the hoop and giving the foul to the offense (NF it is still by rule a charge). He is not playing defense under the hoop and where is the offensive player supposed to go?
I'll answer that one...

The offense is suppose to pull up for a short jumper or go to the side. Hmmm, sounds like the defender IS playing defense...forcing the shooter to take a path different than desired (and a slightly more difficult shot).

Dan_ref Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
But, as you said before, the one thing that it wouldn't be is a block.
Agree. Not a block unless B1 moves in a way to make it a block.

Jurassic Referee Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Agree. Not a block unless B1 moves in a way to make it a block.
And that movement would be <b>towards</b> the opponent or into their path without giving time/distance usually...

Standing still? I really can't think of a situation where you could call a block.

dave30 Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:08am
If you are "refereeing the defense" and you see that the defensive player was knocked out of his spot on the floor.....easy call....player control foul.


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