T or no T ???

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I don't think what he said in this situation deserved a "T", I would have just let it alone at this point of the game. What I do have a real problem with is that you said it felt great. You feel great when you give a kid in a JV game a "T"? A "T" is just another call like a block/charge or a travel, did you feel great when you called traveling during this game also?

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What difference does it make if he felt good about this call? Do you not ever feel good about getting a block/charge call right?

Are you saying we should never T players in the 3rd quarter? I thought you said that a T was just another call? If it is what you feel why all the "qualifications" in your response?

Peace

If you haven't called three seconds all game are you going to call it in the last 2 minutes of the game, if you didn't take care of this kid in the first half I don't think what the kid said warranted a "T" at that point in the game. I got the feeling that he felt "GREAT" to "T" this kid up, not like a "great call" on a block/charge.

[Brad]

Personally, if the kid has been "crying the whole game," why are you waiting until the 3rd quarter to address it?

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Brad

This was going to be my exact response. Handle your "bidness" early on in the game... If you let a kid cry for 3 quarters that is your fault.

Address it early on with a warning -- then whack!!!

At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RonRef

At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

Are you saying that you would never involve the coach?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you saying that you would never involve the coach?

No.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

If the coach isn't smart enough to realize that I am trying to help him and do some preventive officiating then I guess I have to whack someone. I think that this helps build better communication between you and the coaches, letting them know that you can work with them and their players to better manage the game. I have never had a coach yet (knock on wood) go the opposite way as stated in your post!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RonRef

If the coach isn't smart enough to realize that I am trying to help him and do some preventive officiating then I guess I have to whack someone. I think that this helps build better communication between you and the coaches, letting them know that you can work with them and their players to better manage the game. I have never had a coach yet (knock on wood) go the opposite way as stated in your post!

Well, you ended up having to whack a coach because of an action that you initiated, i.e. telling a coach how to handle his own player. What you're proposing is fine if you know the coach and you also know he ain't gonna react adversely. With a coach that you don't know, you're taking your chances. Jmo.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

I agree that waiting 3 qtrs to put the whining to an end is 2.5 qtrs too long. But I just don't see what your problem is with telling the coach his player needs to shut up. If the coach doesn't want to hear that is his problem, not yours. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach then the kid gets the T, same as he would have if the coach wasn't involved. I bet 99% of the time the coach will either thank you and comment that yeah the kid's a pain or thank you and remark that he doesn't usually act this way and then will tell the kid to shut his mouth.

I just don't get why you're making a big deal out of this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I just don't get why you're making a big deal out of this.

Probably because I'm trying to get the point across that there is no all-inclusive way to handle any situation. You do what feels right to you at the particular point in the space-time continuum (I threw that in because bullsh!t baffles brains). Going over and talking to a coach is OK some of the time. That doesn't mean that it's OK all of the time. Jmo.

So there.....

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonRef
At the JV level I would let the coach know that this player is being a pain in my A$$ and to take care of him.

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

I've never been a fan of asking a coach to take care of his players. Opens the door for any number of inappropriate replies.

Coaches and team captains who care step in on their own. They recognize their problem players.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've never been a fan of asking a coach to take care of his players. Opens the door for any number of inappropriate replies.

Coaches and team captains who care step in on their own. They recognize their problem players.

We all have effective ways of game management that work for us. I like to use the coach to control his players and it has works for me, you may not like it, don't use it. A coach isn't always aware of every kid’s actions during a game, I have never had any inappropriate replies by any coaches that I have talked to. It is usually the other end of the spectrum, thanks ref I will take care of him. If he doesn't take care of it and later in the game this same kid is a turd and I have to whack him, then I have this in my back pocket when the coach argues the whack.

[Daryl H. Long]

I can't say things much better than JR. We are hired to do a job so do it when warranted. Some player behavior can be taken care of with the coaches assistance but most I take care of myself.

I guess I make a distiction between general whining and someone telling me to blow my whistle. When the former happens I will immediately address the matter (not always the same way). The latter is not acceptable and no warning given.

I accept the fact that some of you try to involve the coach but lets face it, not all situations warrant that. As Dan_Ref said, the whining should have been taken care of 2 1/2 quarters earlier. Maybe then the T would never have happened. I have observed many officials over the years and in almost every case those who believed as Ron Ref did that neither the whining nor the toot your whistle outburst warranted a T, the number of T's they have given collectively in their carreers is miniscule. Additionally, thier games are very stressful and the more difficult rating I place on those game is due to officials not doing their jobs efficiently.

I have seen many D1 refs who I have evaluated or scouted who are not of that calibre and were way above their heads when it came to officiating at that level. They got there because of who they know and not on ability. I have seen other D1 refs who can boast of few T's because they take care of the little things so the big ones are less likely to happen.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach decides he doesn't want to do your job for you?

There's a whole buncha coaches out there that don't want officials telling them how to do their job. If the kid yaps after you tell the coach, you still are gonna have to do something about it. As practically everybody else said, take care of bidness early when it's still a minor problem.

Then that's a stupid coach. If the ref is trying to get his help with a kid that's going to hurt his team, I would think most quality coaches are gonna handle that kid.

Generally, if I'm imploring the coaches help, I simply let them know that #?? is not focused. I have never had a coach say anything negative back to me (keep in mind, this is not the first time I've communicated with that coach). I have had coaches who do nothing and then get upset with their player when the other teams coach is choosing his shooter. I try to find ways to have short convos with coaches and also try to find my ally from each team. These players will generally help out when asked.

I agree with those who said one thing will not work everytime, but something will work.