foul out and free throws with a T

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe the NF does not go along with that ruling today. After all this was about 5 years ago. The NF has been known to change interpretations from one year to another. If that is what they want, they sure are not using their books very well to make that clear.

True, but from the lack of any definitive direction from anywhere else, I think that you have to accept what is available, and what is available is the ruling that Bob cited. I usually print out the rulings off of the FED web site, but that particular year is missing in my records...unfortunately.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

True, but from the lack of any definitive direction from anywhere else, I think that you have to accept what is available, and what is available is the ruling that Bob cited. I usually print out the rulings off of the FED web site, but that particular year is missing in my records...unfortunately.

This is a situation where I would ask for a current ruling from our rules interpreter. I would not be surprised if I do not get the same answer as this interpretation back in 2000.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is a situation where I would ask for a current ruling from our rules interpreter. I would not be surprised if I do not get the same answer as this interpretation back in 2000.

With all due respect (and I mean that sincerely), that would be a problem with your interpreter and not with the ruling. Once a ruling is issued, it is valid until a rule change or different ruling is issued.

[reffish]

So after all the debate, I am not sure what the ruling is. Before the FT, player A, who fouled out with the T, is removed from the game and substitute shots the FT (and must remain in game until after time on clock is run).

If Player A shoots FT, and before ball is put in play, after the T shots, substitute player for A comes in, must he shoot the FT or points stay and the ball is given to team who shot the T?

Thanks for all the answers posted. Didn't realize this would cause a commotion.

Also, what would the ruling be in NCAA M and W?

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by reffish

So after all the debate, I am not sure what the ruling is. Before the FT, player A, who fouled out with the T, is removed from the game and substitute shots the FT (and must remain in game until after time on clock is run).

If Player A shoots FT, and before ball is put in play, after the T shots, substitute player for A comes in, must he shoot the FT or points stay and the ball is given to team who shot the T?

Thanks for all the answers posted. Didn't realize this would cause a commotion.

Also, what would the ruling be in NCAA M and W?

NFHS: If the fouled out player is removed properly, the sub shoots the FT's. If the official crew did not recognize that the player was disqualified and he is allowed to shoot, the FT's are allowed and this does not fall under the correctable error rule.

EXCEPTION: If you are Rut and don't want to admit that you might have missed one, you trot out the old overused "regional thing" or "my interpreter can beat up your interpreter thing" and ignore all the evidence.

Z

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by reffish

So after all the debate, I am not sure what the ruling is. Before the FT, player A, who fouled out with the T, is removed from the game and substitute shots the FT (and must remain in game until after time on clock is run).

The sub can leave at almost anytime (the sub must shoot all of A's FTs); and certainly the clock need not run.

If Player A shoots FT, and before ball is put in play, after the T shots, substitute player for A comes in, must he shoot the FT or points stay and the ball is given to team who shot the T?

The points stay. A was a legal player at the time s/he shot the FTs. It's not a correctable error.

Thanks for all the answers posted. Didn't realize this would cause a commotion.

Also, what would the ruling be in NCAA M and W?

Same ruling

[reffish]

[QUOTE=bob jenkins]The sub can leave at almost anytime (the sub must shoot all of A's FTs); and certainly the clock need not run.

You are right, I thought the sub could not leave untill the clock started and stopped.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by reffish

You are right, I thought the sub could not leave untill the clock started and stopped.

That is an NBA rule. Not everything you see on TV applies to the NFHS game.

As Bob told you, in high school after a substitute enters there is no requirement for this player to remain in the game for any amount of time on the game clock.

[RookieDude]

[QUOTE=reffish]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The sub can leave at almost anytime (the sub must shoot all of A's FTs); and certainly the clock need not run.

You are right, I thought the sub could not leave untill the clock started and stopped.

reffish...in NFHS you can have two different subs come in and each shoot one of the two Technical Foul Free Throws, right? No time has come off the clock in that situation...and yet you have subs entering/leaving...maybe that is one way to remember it is different than the NBA.

Also...were you thinking there is an issue with "time off the clock" for players that have already been subed for coming back in?

Great discussion BTW...I'm going to bring this one up to the b-ball guys the next time we are sitting around telling lies.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

With all due respect (and I mean that sincerely), that would be a problem with your interpreter and not with the ruling. Once a ruling is issued, it is valid until a rule change or different ruling is issued.

Well that is not true at all. We have had rulings in the past that did not go along with past rulings that are no longer in the casebook or rulebook. For the life of me why the NF would not put this ruling in the casebook? This is a very unique situation and I would think would still require this ruling if they want everyone to be on the same page. Many of you might work only basketball and you are not aware what the NF does in other sports as it relates to these rulings in one year and change them in the same season or the following year. It is very common for them to have rulings in other sports only to come back later and correct them. It does not happen in basketball as much because the sport is not a very rules intensive sport. In football this year there were a few casebook mistakes and things that did not go right along with the wording in the rulebook. I will still ask for a ruling from my state and because of the relationship our state has with the NF, I am sure they will get a ruling right from the NF.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that is not true at all.

Yes it is.

We have had rulings in the past that did not go along with past rulings that are no longer in the casebook or rulebook.

But until the next ruling came out, the previous ruling remained in effect, right? That's exactly what I said above:

Once a ruling is issued, it is valid until a rule change or different ruling is issued.

The interpretation doesn't become invalid simply b/c it doesn't get put in next year's casebook. The interpretation remains in force until the rule changes or a conflicting interpretation is issued.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Yes it is.

But until the next ruling came out, the previous ruling remained in effect, right? That's exactly what I said above:

The interpretation doesn't become invalid simply b/c it doesn't get put in next year's casebook. The interpretation remains in force until the rule changes or a conflicting interpretation is issued.

OK.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

OK.

Cool. Jurassic's not the only one who learned something in this thread.