foul out and free throws with a T

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case book play 2-10-4 suresasheck is relevant. That case play talks about a wrong player being allowed to shoot FT's. Player A is the wrong player in the op.

...

We're talking about a wrong player being allowed to shoot FT's that he didn't really have coming because of disqualification, Chuck.

In the original post, player A was fouled. Player A also fouled out before he could shoot the 2 FT's that he had coming. The replacement for player A is supposed to shoot both of A's original FT's. Ergo, if player A was allowed to shoot any FT's, he was the wrong player to do so; his replacement was the right player, by rule. Sez so right in rule 8-2- "The freethrows awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available". Iow, because a wrong player shot the FT's, as per R2-10-1(c), we have a correctable error. That correctable error was caught in time, as per R2-10-2. It was also supposed to be corrected as per R2-10-4, which states that any FT's taken by a wrong player are cancelled.

There is no error in this situation. Player A may have committed the foul that should have fouled him out before the FTs but the rules quite clearly indicate that the player doesn't actually foul (become disqualified) out until the coach is notified. As such, there was no disqualification to force the player to withdraw and the correct player (the one who was fouled) shot the free throws. Only when that player has legally been disqualified does his substitute become the correct shooter. Any actions that occur prior to that point in time are valid.

[Jurassic Referee]

Case Book Play 4.14.1 SITUATION A: DISQUALIFICATION

A1 is fouled by B1 while team A is in the bonus. The covering official is at the table reporting the foul when A1 is charged with a technical foul by thje official who is observing the players. The foul on A1 is his/her fifth.
RULING: A1 is disqualified as both personal and technical fouls are counted. Because A1 has been disqualified, he/she will not be allowed to attempt the free throw(s) resulting from B1's foul. The substitute for A1 will shoot the free throw(s). (8-2)

And if A1's substitute doesn't shoot the free throws, it now becomes a correctable error under rule 2-10, yada, yada, yada......

Do you people honestly feel that the FED intended to throw the correctable error rule and everything else that I cited down the toilet just because a disqualified player wasn't notified? He was still disqualified, wasn't he?

Unless you can tie the language of 4-14-2 into this specific situation, and also come up with something that sez that rule trumps everything else cited so far in the rule or case books, then I ain't buying it.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

He was still disqualified, wasn't he?

No, he wasn't. This is made explicit in 4-14-2. I don't see how you can set this rule aside.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case Book Play 4.14.1 SITUATION A: DISQUALIFICATION

Just to add one more thought. Your case play deals with a player who fouled out and was disqualified. The case play I cited has to do with a player who fouled out but was not disqualified. In my case, the action before the player was properly DQ'd was allowed to stand. That's what I think is similar to the play under discussion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case Book Play 4.14.1 SITUATION A: DISQUALIFICATION

A1 is fouled by B1 while team A is in the bonus. The covering official is at the table reporting the foul when A1 is charged with a technical foul by thje official who is observing the players. The foul on A1 is his/her fifth.
RULING: A1 is disqualified as both personal and technical fouls are counted. Because A1 has been disqualified, he/she will not be allowed to attempt the free throw(s) resulting from B1's foul. The substitute for A1 will shoot the free throw(s). (8-2)

And if A1's substitute doesn't shoot the free throws, it now becomes a correctable error under rule 2-10, yada, yada, yada......

Do you people honestly feel that the FED intended to throw the correctable error rule and everything else that I cited down the toilet just because a disqualified player wasn't notified? He was still disqualified, wasn't he?

Lah me.....

NO! He was not.

This case is only marginally relevant in our situation; it only matters in the situation where the disqualification occurs before the FTs are taken. A1 is not disqualified until the coach is notified....you can't throw that rule out just to make your argument work. Until A1 is disqualified, A1 is the correct player to shoot the FTs. It doesn't matter what should have happened. A late disqualification is not a correctable situation.