High School Federation Three Point Mechanics

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, I'm afraid it's not. Under NFHS mechanics, women's mechanics are no different than men's. The lead may indicate that a fast break 3 is being attempted but it's still up to the T and C to signal success. [/B]

TH, I think he meant College Women's. Because if that is what he was talking about, he is right on the money.

[BktBallRef]

He may be but question was "Is this the proper High School Federation Mechanic?" And his answer was "That is correct in three man women's mechanics!"

[Love2ref4Ever]

For those of you who are not sure which gender I wanted the correct three point mechanics for, the answer that I was looking for was "boys"High School Federation Mechanics.I would like to take the opportunity at this time to thank my fellow officials for there feedback.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
For those of you who are not sure which gender I wanted the correct three point mechanics for, the answer that I was looking for was "boys"High School Federation Mechanics.I would like to take the opportunity at this time to thank my fellow officials for there feedback.

Just a note - There is no difference in NFHS mechanics with regards to boys and girls. They are the same for each gender.

[rainmaker]

Tony --

There are states where there are differences. Washington, for instance, has some differences between HS boys' and HS girls'. I can't quote you them all at the moment, because I only used them a few times myself, but I know they exist.

Regarding the 3-point signaling, in Portland, our commissioner insists that Lead NEVER mirrors. Also, what we are taught is that Lead signals when the ball goes up, and then when the ball goes in, and then Trail mirrors. I agree with those that don't like this, because it can be hard to see all the action, and then catch the ball as it falls. I like the Trail mirroring the intent, and Lead not signalling the drop.... Just in case anyone is counting votes...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

There are states where there are differences. Washington, for instance, has some differences between HS boys' and HS girls'. I can't quote you them all at the moment, because I only used them a few times myself, but I know they exist.

I'm sure that may be true. However, there is no difference in NFHS mechanics with regards to girls and boys basketball. They are what they are and they are the same.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Tony --

There are states where there are differences. Washington, for instance, has some differences between HS boys' and HS girls'. I can't quote you them all at the moment, because I only used them a few times myself, but I know they exist.

Well, yeah, some states use different rules and/or
mechanics. Here in NY we use modified NCAA women's
for girls HS, and since we have a shot clock even the
boys HS is modified NF rules. But these are not the
NFHS rules & mechanics, they are the NY State rules
& mechanics.

Regarding the 3-point signaling, in Portland, our commissioner insists that Lead NEVER mirrors. Also, what we are taught is that Lead signals when the ball goes up, and then when the ball goes in, and then Trail mirrors. I agree with those that don't like this, because it can be hard to see all the action, and then catch the ball as it falls. I like the Trail mirroring the intent, and Lead not signalling the drop.... Just in case anyone is counting votes...

Same here, which is why I was suprised to learn the mirror
was back in.

[bob jenkins]

From 1999-2000 Officials Manual:
Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Two Officials
Three-point Try
281.d

"If the three-point attempt is successful, the covering official will signal by fully extending both arms over the head with palms facing each other. When the Trail official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Lead official shall (not) mirror the signal. When the Lead official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Trail shall mirror the signal."

Missing a not in here, no? [/QUOTE]

No, I am not.

[/QUOTE]

Then I need to go back to re-read the manual, I have not
mirrored a trail's 3 pt signal as lead in years. [/QUOTE]

Sheesh -- I go away for a couple of days and all h*** breaks loose.

On this paragraph from the 1999-2001 Official's Manual --

Paragraph 281d, as originally printed, makes it appear as though the Lead should mirropr the Trail on 3-point attempts (2-person mechanics). The paragraph is wrong -- the word "not" was left out when the book was printed.

This ommission was noted when the NFHS published its Basketball Rules Interpretations for the 1999-2000 season.

(FWIW, there were 15 rules-book errors, 4 case-book errors. 3 officials-manual erros and 2 S&I errors noted by the FED that year -- and I don't think they got them all).

[walter]

In our association, two man mechanics, lead signals the three point attempt, if it goes in, trail gives touchdown signal and lead mirrors. This is the only situation, other than in transition, where the lead signals the three.

[mick]

Originally posted by walter
In our association, two man mechanics, lead signals the three point attempt, if it goes in, trail gives touchdown signal and lead mirrors. This is the only situation, other than in transition, where the lead signals the three.

Walter,
And now, according to Bob Jenkins post, that is the wrong mechanic per Fed. Maybe the new book will show the change.
mick

[Love2ref4Ever]

Okay, Let me take this question one step further,So because I decline to signal the three point try successful(as the trail) until my partner(the lead)signaled the three point try successful.Does that make me correct or incorrect. since then the situation happened to me yesterday, and my partner who is a womens official did not signal a three point try successful(as the lead)so after she noticed that I was not going raise both of my arms to signal the three point try successful,she immediately raised both her arms to signal the three point try successful and I did the same. She never questioned me about the play, and we never had a disscussion about the play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Okay, Let me take this question one step further,So because I decline to signal the three point try successful(as the trail) until my partner(the lead)signaled the three point try successful.Does that make me correct or incorrect. since then the situation happened to me yesterday, and my partner who is a womens official did not signal a three point try successful(as the lead)so after she noticed that I was not going raise both of my arms to signal the three point try successful,she immediately raised both her arms to signal the three point try successful and I did the same. She never questioned me about the play, and we never had a disscussion about the play.

a) The "by-the-book" answer: The covering official (that's the lead in this case) is supposed to signal the successful attempt, and the trail (if not the covering official) should mirror. So, you are technically correct to wait for the lead's signal.

b) The "practical" answer: If you see your partner indicate the attempt, and you see the ball go in the basket, why do you need to see your partner's signal? There's a small chance that the lead changed her mind (i.e., it wasn't really a "three") and a small chance that something happened to make the basket not count, but if you are court-aware, those shouldn't happen.

c) The NCAA women's three-person answer (which explains why your partner did what she did): "If the 3-point shot is attempted in the L's primary coverage area the L official will signal the attempt. The T will mirror the attempt and, if successful, the T will signal a successful 3-point shot and the C will mirror the successful 3-point signal. It is permissable for the L to signal a successful 3-point shot if the C and T have not given the signal."

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

a) The "by-the-book" answer: The covering official (that's the lead in this case) is supposed to signal the successful attempt, and the trail (if not the covering official) should mirror. So, you are technically correct to wait for the lead's signal.

b) The "practical" answer: If you see your partner indicate the attempt, and you see the ball go in the basket, why do you need to see your partner's signal? There's a small chance that the lead changed her mind (i.e., it wasn't really a "three") and a small chance that something happened to make the basket not count, but if you are court-aware, those shouldn't happen.

c) The NCAA women's three-person answer (which explains why your partner did what she did): "If the 3-point shot is attempted in the L's primary coverage area the L official will signal the attempt. The T will mirror the attempt and, if successful, the T will signal a successful 3-point shot and the C will mirror the successful 3-point signal. It is permissable for the L to signal a successful 3-point shot if the C and T have not given the signal."

Well said, and b) is usually the way to go. In fact I would
go so far as to say the T should mirror the 3 pt attempt
signal & then own the shot, simmply because the L will want
to continue to referee the shooter and the T should be on
the shot anyway for BI/GT and subsequent rebounding action.
As for c), it's been my experience that women referees (as
in female, not men who ref women's games) are generally more
accomodating about these mechanics differences (ie are less
likely to behave like an assh*le). Not always, not
everyone, just enough to make a difference, IMO

[SIDRef]

I wish someone would tell North Carolina that the lead--in a 2-man game--should not give the touchdown signal. It makes little sense. There's too much else for that official to do.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by SIDRef
I wish someone would tell North Carolina that the lead--in a 2-man game--should not give the touchdown signal. It makes little sense. There's too much else for that official to do.

I wish someone would tell me where North Carolina said that the lead-- in a 2-man game--should "give the touchdown signal." It makes little sense, since we only work 3 man and that's all I wrote about in this post.