High School Federation Three Point Mechanics

Love2ref4Ever · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 07:17am

A1 attempts a three point try from the corner,the lead official makes the three point signal.The lead official then referees the shooter A1 from the time the shooter attempts the three point try and until A1 returns to the floor (in case he or she is fouled) The three point try is successful and the lead official never raises both arms to indicate that the three point try was good. During the next dead ball the lead official explains to his partner that as the lead in a situation like this one he is not required to raise both arms to indicate that the three point try was successful. Is this the proper High School Federation Mechanic?

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 07:39am

No, this is not the proper mechanic. The lead should raise both arms to indicate three-points, and the trail should mirror the signal. If the lead was still on the ball and didn't see the ball go through the basket (an unlikely occurrence), then the trail should indicate the successful try.

mick · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 08:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
No, this is not the proper mechanic. The lead should raise both arms to indicate three-points, and the trail should mirror the signal. If the lead was still on the ball and didn't see the ball go through the basket (an unlikely occurrence), then the trail should indicate the successful try.

Bob,
In the reverse situation, when the three-point try belongs to Trail, I have a real problem mirroring the Trail from Lead, because

Table sees the shot;

Table sees Trail;

Nobody sees, or looks at, Lead.

That may be my worst mechanic... not mirroring from Lead.
Wasn't that removed a couple years ago, and then returned?
mick

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 03:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
No, this is not the proper mechanic. The lead should raise both arms to indicate three-points, and the trail should mirror the signal. If the lead was still on the ball and didn't see the ball go through the basket (an unlikely occurrence), then the trail should indicate the successful try.

Bob, the lead should not be signaling any kind of 3 point shot in HS mechanics. Now I know they do in NCAA Women's. But the lead does not have any coverage beyond the 3 point line, so the lead should not be signaling an attempt or made shot in this case. Only the Trail and Center should be doing this. And they only time the Trail or Center will mirror each other, when a 3 point shot is put up near the center of the court, and on a made 3 point shot.

Peace

BigDave · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 04:04pm

I'm with Rut on this one. The only time lead signals a 3-point attempt in HS is with two-person mechanics.

Doug · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 04:35pm

I just returned from the right call basketball camp in madison and we had a big discussion over this. the lead official NEVER does this, unless it is out of the trail's vision. the lead may assist in indicating if a shot is a 3, but again, only if it is out of the trail's vision. we had 10 college clinitions and 5 commissioners there and that was what they told us. the lead NEVER mirrors the trail's 3 point signal (hands in air). Even with 2 man mechanics the lead NEVER mirrors, commisioners don't want to see this and it will be a big point in the comming years because it is a big misconception

always open to feedback

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 05:12pm

The original post was two-man, yo?

mick

Warning: If you think Jenkins is wrong... read it again.

Love2ref4Ever · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 06:49pm

This game was officiated by two officials, so as the trail official was I correct in not signaling a three? I just want to be sure what the federation mechanics are.

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 08:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
This game was officiated by two officials, so as the trail official was I correct in not signaling a three? I just want to be sure what the federation mechanics are.

Love2,
Bob gave you the mechanic in the book. (Maybe it changed this year..., but I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.)
It is more important, in my mind, for the Trail to mirror a partner, than for the Lead to mirror a partner, because the Trail is in full visibility to relay information to the Table.
Rut was correct with respect to three-man and the lead never being on ball outside the arc.
mick

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Rut was correct with respect to three-man and the lead never being on ball outside the arc.
mick

I disagree. If there's a fast break, the trail is not in position, and the three is from the strong side, it's the lead's responsibility to indicate that a 3 point shot has been attempted. It would then fall to the T and C to indiucate a successful try.

Doug · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 05, 2001, 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Rut was correct with respect to three-man and the lead never being on ball outside the arc.
mick

I disagree. If there's a fast break, the trail is not in position, and the three is from the strong side, it's the lead's responsibility to indicate that a 3 point shot has been attempted. It would then fall to the T and C to indiucate a successful try.

I agree w/ you 100%, the lead may signal a 3-point attempt so that his partners know that it was there, but NEVER should the lead signal that it was successful

mick · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 06, 2001, 05:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Rut was correct with respect to three-man and the lead never being on ball outside the arc.
mick

I disagree. If there's a fast break, the trail is not in position, and the three is from the strong side, it's the lead's responsibility to indicate that a 3 point shot has been attempted. It would then fall to the T and C to indiucate a successful try.

The play I envisioned was different from yours.

Love2ref4Ever · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 06, 2001, 07:05am

Okay, now let me share with you the second part of this play.During the halftime, my partner was furious that I did not signal(raise both of my arms to signal that the 3point try was successful)Due to the fact that my partner is also a Pro-Am official,and he was using pro mechanics the entire game. frankly, after the first quarter I stopped trying to figure out what the different mechanics were and just tried to concentrate on calling the game.My partner told me that he was going to continue using these signals and that I should except it.Unfortunately he wanted to spend the entire half time explaining his reasons for using these mechanics.I suggested to him that we not spend the entire half time on this situation and that we prepare for the second half of the game. Fortunately for us we did not have a similiar situation like this in the second half. I am concerned about officials who work pro leagues,and when they work high school games they choose to use pro mechanics.

dblref · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 06, 2001, 08:20am

I must be mis-reading the original post (not the first time). I did not see anything to indicate it was a 3-person crew. I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that it was a 2-person game. If so, and the lead had the 3 point try, why would he/she not signal it was good. I don't have the rule book or officials manual with me (took it home to study for 8/21 exam), but I seemed to recall that if the lead signals a 3 point try and the shot is good, the lead signals it was good and the trail mirrors. But, if the trail signals, the lead does not mirror. I believe the reasoning for the trail to "mirror" the lead is that depending on where the try was made (i.e., in the corner away from the table, the table might not know it was successful. Did I miss something?

mick · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 06, 2001, 09:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by dblref
I must be mis-reading the original post (not the first time). I did not see anything to indicate it was a 3-person crew. I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that it was a 2-person game. If so, and the lead had the 3 point try, why would he/she not signal it was good. I don't have the rule book or officials manual with me (took it home to study for 8/21 exam), but I seemed to recall that if the lead signals a 3 point try and the shot is good, the lead signals it was good and the trail mirrors. But, if the trail signals, the lead does not mirror. I believe the reasoning for the trail to "mirror" the lead is that depending on where the try was made (i.e., in the corner away from the table, the table might not know it was successful. Did I miss something?

From 1999-2000 Officials Manual:
Basic Procedures and Mechanics - Two Officials
Three-point Try
281.d

"If the three-point attempt is successful, the covering official will signal by fully extending both arms over the head with palms facing each other. When the Trail official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Lead official shall mirror the signal. When the Lead official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Trail shall mirror the signal."