I'm feelin ornery

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

The jump to start the game is ridiculous most of the time because officials don't care enough. Players can time the majority of jump balls because of hitches (a slight dip before going up) in the tossing motion. A low toss is another reason jump balls are bad. Danny Crawford, a (gasp) NBA official uses a nice toss without a dip. I use two hands and go from a bounce straight up while I'm talking so the jumpers cannot steal the tip.

How many of us have a dip that allows our toss to be stolen?

Obviously you don't know about the "dip fake!"

I dip my shoulder but then hold it until I'm ready to toss it, not when the bohemoths think i'm going to toss.

BTW, my crew called 7 jump ball violations on jumpers this year for getting the ball on the way up.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What has a guard's great play or poor play to do with the AP? Before you say the AP "rewards" great play you should note that 50% of the time it rewards the OTHER team.

How can you use that 50% stat? You odn't know for sure which play is rewarded in each situation. YOu can say there's a 50% chance EACH TIME that the OTHER team is going to be rewarded, but, for all you know, the great guard play could end up getting rewarded everytime.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

How can you use that 50% stat?

Geeze, well maybe because the alternating possession arrow actually *alternates* from team to team...and since there are only 2 teams to consider, 50% of the time the arrow will in fact be pointing at the OTHER team.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

So, a guard makes a great play to tie up the ball with the opposing center, and you prefer to have those two jump it up instead of using an AP arrow? An official's ability to throw up a straight toss has NO BEARING on the change in this rule. The AP arrow has made the game a much better game.

The problem with this angle is that if aguard did make such a great play there wouldn't even be a held ball. He would have gained sole possession of the ball. Likewise for the center, if it was a great play by him, he wouldn't have allowed the guard to tie it up. A held ball is a mediocre play for both teams...split the difference, go with the arrow. (NCAA tried going back the the team in control but that opened up a real pandora's box of weird situations and they quickly reverted to the arrow).

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I have no opinion with regard to Charlie's third recommendation. But he is on point concerning his first two recommendations.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, referee incompetence have nothing to dio with the NBA's semi-circle. The rule was added by the NBA because they wanted fans, coaches, and players to understand that they did not want charges called when secondary defenders were standing under the basket. It had nothing to do with officials being unable to make the proper call.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Mark, referee incompetence have nothing to dio with the NBA's semi-circle. The rule was added by the NBA because they wanted fans, coaches, and players to understand that they did not want charges called when secondary defenders were standing under the basket. It had nothing to do with officials being unable to make the proper call.

Rut:

I understand why the NBA/WNBA has it I just think it is stupid and hope that the NFHS and NCAA (and don't get me started on Barb Jacobs and her lack of rules knowledge contribution to the situation) does not adopt such a rule.

MTD, Sr.

[tomegun]

MTD, I think the biggest problem with the NFHS and NCAA is consistency. It doesn't matter if you have the restricted area or a picture of Bozo the Clown, if games aren't called consistently people will be unhappy.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tomegun

MTD, I think the biggest problem with the NFHS and NCAA is consistency. It doesn't matter if you have the restricted area or a picture of Bozo the Clown, if games aren't called consistently people will be unhappy.

tomegun:

I agree with you regarding consistiencey. The real problem concerning the guarding/screening problem is that officials are calling way too many blocks instead of charges. I am will to bet dollars to donuts that if an official had 100 bang-bang block/charge calls and called a charge 100% of the time I would say that the official would be correct at least 95% of the time which is a higher percentage of being correct that anything that the players or coachs do during the game.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

I understand why the NBA/WNBA has it I just think it is stupid and hope that the NFHS and NCAA (and don't get me started on Barb Jacobs and her lack of rules knowledge contribution to the situation) does not adopt such a rule.

MTD, Sr.

Ah Mark, I think you are responding to Tony, not me. I did not make any posts in this thread until this very post.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

I understand why the NBA/WNBA has it I just think it is stupid and hope that the NFHS and NCAA (and don't get me started on Barb Jacobs and her lack of rules knowledge contribution to the situation) does not adopt such a rule.

MTD, Sr.

I'm not Rut. Never have been, never will. I'd slit my wrists first.

Now, that we have that out of the way, you must not understand why the NBA/WNBA has that rule or you wouldn't have agreed with the idiot sportswriter that it was referee incompetence.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I'm not Rut. Never have been, never will. I'd slit my wrists first.

Do you promise?

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I'm not Rut. Never have been, never will. I'd slit my wrists first.

Now, that we have that out of the way, you must not understand why the NBA/WNBA has that rule or you wouldn't have agreed with the idiot sportswriter that it was referee incompetence.

Rut and Tony:

This is what happens because I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other (the number one requirement to be a sports official) and try to multi-task at the same time. There is a reason that my wife gave me bubblegum before we went to bed when we were first married and weren't ready to have children.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I'm not Rut. Never have been, never will. I'd slit my wrists first.

Tony:

Now, that we have that out of the way, you must not understand why the NBA/WNBA has that rule or you wouldn't have agreed with the idiot sportswriter that it was referee incompetence.

I think that the NBA/WNBA officials are competent, I think that H.S. officials are the one's that do the poor job of calling block/charge.

MTD, Sr.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

"The worst basketball rule on any level is the NCAA's alternating possession on a held-ball situation. The only reason why this abomination exists is because the refs aren't capable of properly implementing the tosses for jump balls."

This is a much quoted explanation, but according to Red Auerbach, he started the movement for alternate possession because Kareem Abdul Jabbar never lost a tip-off, and he was sick of the Lakers getting two extra possessions a game. He started complaining that the referees couldn't toss the ball up consistantly and people bought it.

The real reason this took off is that the game was getting longer due to TV timeouts and the powers that be welcomed ways to shorten the game.