Hightower

[Raymond]

Amen Brad...I spend about 75% of my television basketball viewing paying attention to the refs to see what they are doing, how they are moving, what they are looking at, how they communicating with the coaches and players. I especially watch officials of my body type to see how they run and present their mechanics.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Brad
A lot of the comments on here are pretty amazing to me. Every one of you that is criticizing one of these officials has something in common - you are all sitting at home while they are working!

If I were you, I'd start figuring out what these guys are doing that has helped them move up the ladder and stay there, rather than critique their mechanics, positioning, etc.

They are at the top level of the college game - and it is much different than high school / lower college level when it comes to having the ability to get there and (more importantly) stay there!

- Brad

No one could have said it better. My point exactly.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Amen.

I'll amen that amen.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I'll amen that amen.

I agree with Brad.

[Nu1]

As they say...I've got no dog in this fight...but I am a little offended, Brad.

I'm still working! I have an adult-men's-rec-league game this Sunday! In fact, it's a double header! None of that sissy one-game-and-your-done stuff.

Just kidding, Brad. Valid point.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Brad
A lot of the comments on here are pretty amazing to me. Every one of you that is criticizing one of these officials has something in common - you are all sitting at home while they are working!

If I were you, I'd start figuring out what these guys are doing that has helped them move up the ladder and stay there, rather than critique their mechanics, positioning, etc.

They are at the top level of the college game - and it is much different than high school / lower college level when it comes to having the ability to get there and (more importantly) stay there!

- Brad

Some of us have no desire to climb that ladder. Does that mean we can't have an opinion (unless it's a glowing one)?

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Brad
A lot of the comments on here are pretty amazing to me. Every one of you that is criticizing one of these officials has something in common - you are all sitting at home while they are working!

If I were you, I'd start figuring out what these guys are doing that has helped them move up the ladder and stay there, rather than critique their mechanics, positioning, etc.

They are at the top level of the college game - and it is much different than high school / lower college level when it comes to having the ability to get there and (more importantly) stay there!

- Brad

Critiquing upperlevel officials is how you get better. You can learn from the bads and the goods that these officials do. I'm one of the last people to bash officials but Ed Hightower does some things that would be unacceptable for newer college officials and this is simply because he IS Ed Hightower. I think he is a great official and I try to pick up things from watching him work.

And many of those officials are not there because of pure ability. There are PLENTY of officials working HS ball that could easily be working college level games. Its not always how good you are but who you know.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Critiquing upperlevel officials is how you get better.

Well, maybe that's how you get better.

Critiquing my own performance is how I get better. Getting critiqued by officials I know & respect is how I get better. Critiquing other officials is what I do to try & make THEM get better, if they're willing to listen & accept it. Critiquing other officials behind their back is...well...rude.

You can learn from the bads and the goods that these officials do. I'm one of the last people to bash officials but Ed Hightower does some things that would be unacceptable for newer college officials and this is simply because he IS Ed Hightower.

I can't imagine 1 thing Hightower does that would not make an aspiring college official better if he put it into his game.

I think he is a great official and I try to pick up things from watching him work.

Then we agree.

And many of those officials are not there because of pure ability.

Many, eh? Name 5 or 6.

There are PLENTY of officials working HS ball that could easily be working college level games. Its not always how good you are but who you know.

Yeah I know...if I only had the connections I would be touring the world making big money instead of doing my singing in the church choir.

[canuckrefguy]

Holy crap

I leave the thread for a day and it degenerates into THIS?

It's one thing to discuss controversial calls, unusual incidents - the usual "how 'bout the way they handled that?" kind of stuff...

But dumping all over seasoned big-time officials, some of them with multiple Final Fours and National Championship games....talking about how much they supposedly suck.

I met Scott Thornley at a camp, and found him to be one of the nicest guys I've met in officiating, and full of knowledge and helpful insights. Maybe some of you don't find him to be your cup of tea - but he doesn't deserve that kind of BS.

Gimme a break. And get a life.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

[cough]unbelievable[cough]

Nah, I believe it. Not surprising at all.

btw, you guys should do something about that cough. [/B][/QUOTE]

Dan, I agree. Since they didn't do anything about it, I've picked it up. LOL Well, ok, so I really do have a cough now, but it's not cause of you two.

[Brad]

Some of us have no desire to climb that ladder. Does that mean we can't have an opinion (unless it's a glowing one)?

Personally I think that it's pretty bad form to sit there and criticize officials - unless your goal is to help them.

I've had people make comments to me about the officiating in NCAA games or the Superbowl, etc. - my response is always the same: When you get to that level out on that court/field, then you can talk.

College ball is different than high school and Division I is different than lower level college. Just because you referee at one level doesn't mean that you know what it takes to work at the next level. It's not all about mechanics, positioning, etc.

- Brad

[BktBallRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brad

When you get to that level out on that court/field, then you can talk.

I have to say Brad, that's a somewhat closed minded attitude. I think there's a difference in sitting in the stands and criticizing the offiicals on the floor, versus discussing situations on this board that may arise during a nationally televised game. While I agree that no good can come from tearing these guys apart, we can learn from discussing their mistakes. I can tell you that this is one official that learned a lesson from our discussion on the blarge that two D1 officials called in a NCAA Regional Championship game between Iowa State and Michigan State, that resulted in one player fouling and and a head coach being ejected.

Personally, I would love to sit down with some of these guys and ask why so much traveling is allowed in the low post. It's getting as bad as the NBA. It's not difficult to see or call. So why do they refuse to call it? Am I not allowed to have that opinion, simply because I'll never "get to that level?

JMHO.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Brad

Personally I think that it's pretty bad form to sit there and criticize officials - unless your goal is to help them.

I've had people make comments to me about the officiating in NCAA games or the Superbowl, etc. - my response is always the same: When you get to that level out on that court/field, then you can talk.

College ball is different than high school and Division I is different than lower level college. Just because you referee at one level doesn't mean that you know what it takes to work at the next level. It's not all about mechanics, positioning, etc.

- Brad

It's about spending $400 a pop a few times a summer in extort......I mean camp money, right?

I find it in bad form to bash officials. I find it in even worse form to tell people what they should and shouldn't say based on my opinion. Shrug.

[Brad]

There is a difference between learning from a blarge or other difficult situation and saying "How does this guy get games?!?", which is what the OP stated - and was echoed by many.

I've heard far too many high school officials talk about NBA guys, etc., when they really don't have a clue about working at that level.

To each his own, but you aren't going to hear me criticizing an official like that.

[Nevadaref]

1. There is always room for any person in this country to voice his own personal opinion whether others agree with it or not.

2. There are certain facts that can be observed by anyone who watches some of these guys work, no matter what level that observer is currently officiating at or even if he officiates at all.
a. David Hall often squats down, puts his hands on his knees, and leans from side to side while officiating.
b. Hightower frequently leans instead of moving his feet when at the C or T. Kind of a wobble or teeter. Sometimes he will take a spot in the middle of the lane when working as the Lead.
These guys are old school and likely have been doing these things long before the "mechanics" that we have now were ever put in. Perhaps they even came up with some of them. 3-man wasn't invented in a day. It was evolved. Maybe they shouldn't be forced to change/conform entirely.

3. However, it is debatable whether these actions help these people get a better angle to see a play. I do know that I and many others on this forum have been instructed NOT to do these exact actions at camps, sometimes run by the very people who do it! I guess it's: Do what I say, not what I do.

4. Do they get a high percentage of their calls correct (say 90%+) and how much of a role do their movements/mechanics play in the correctness or incorrectness? That is also up for debate.

5. Both of the men named above know far more about officiating basketball than I probably ever will. Does that mean that they are above critique? Nope. Does it mean that I cannot say anything about their games? I don't think so.



[Edited by Nevadaref on Mar 16th, 2006 at 03:52 AM]