Influence of drugs in sports - Barry Bonds

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Those cortisone injections are an example of somebody legally using a type of steroid under a doctor's care. I woulld imagine that would apply to more than a few officials on this forum too. They're about as far from what Bonds and the other juicers were doing as you can get. Apples and watermelons.

Why?

A performance enhancing drug enhances performance whether you get it from an MD or a gym rat with connections.

[/B][/QUOTE]Why? Because a steroid being used for a specific purpose under a doctor's direction is completely different than somebody ingesting horse steroids to add muscle or bulk. Most steroids are prescribed to aid healing or alleviate certain problems- ex: joint trauma or asthma. They are not performance enhancers per se, unless you count walking and breathing as "performance". What Bonds and the other juicers are using has got nuthin' to do with that. I've had all kinds of steroid injections over the years- both knees, back- and ingested different steroids also-ex. prednisone(which is about the strongest one around). I didn't turn into Mr. PotatoHead like Bonds did.

Good explanation here:
http://www.globalchange.com/steroids.htm

Of course, I also do agree with you that MLB was jumping up and down when McGwire and Sosa were having their homerun battle. They coulda cared less that steroids were involved. It certainly did take Canseco and the U.S. government to pull their head outa their butts. They're hardly unique there though. What professional sport anymore really cares about anything except maximizing their investment?

[bebanovich]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
I didn't turn into Mr. PotatoHead like Bonds did.

As someone who appreciated and enjoyed being around Mr. PotatoHead, I resent the comparison.

What professional sport anymore really cares about anything except maximizing their investment?

Business does have only one main obligation to their stockholders and that's to make money. But with sports it seems like someone has to keep a level head and make sure it doesn't get pushed too far or it might start to backfire. Has baseball expansion been an example of this? Maybe that's just wishful, old-fashioned thinking.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Why?

A performance enhancing drug enhances performance whether you get it from an MD or a gym rat with connections.

[/B]

Why? Because blah blah blah blah too many words... [/b][/quote]

Let's try again. What do Kirk Gibson & Willis Reed have in common? They are men, who when you wouldn't trust them to carry an egg from the refrig to the frying pan, pulled out one single miracle performance only because they were both shot full of drugs. IOW their performance was enhanced by drugs.

Good to see you've come to your senses.

Originally posted by bebanovich

They are allowed their greed and I am allowed to turn my back on the game (which I pretty much have after living and dying with it through the 70's and 80's.)

I meant willful neglect in terms of their caretaking of the beauty and integrity of the game itself, not of revenues or franchise financial health.

My opinions are really just the grumblings of a bitter ex-fan and don't really mean anything. whatever this crap is they are selling now is making a whole lot more money than the game of baseball I used to love. But the day Bonds' name goes above Aaron's in the record book is the day they may as well take a big piss on the record book, IMO.

You're late to the party.

Some of us pissed on the record book back when Mcgwire & Sosa broke 61.

[Edited by Dan_ref on Mar 9th, 2006 at 06:34 PM]

[bebanovich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


You're late to the party.

Some of us pissed on the record book back when Mcgwire & Sosa broke 61.

Sounds like some party.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bebanovich

Sounds like some party.

Kinda like the Boston tea party...except but we drank the tea & pee'ed over the side of the ship.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

[/B]

1) What do Kirk Gibson & Willis Reed have in common? They are men, who when you wouldn't trust them to carry an egg from the refrig to the frying pan, pulled out one single miracle performance only because they were both shot full of drugs.

2) Good to see you've come back to your senses.

3) Some of us pissed on the record book back when Mcgwire & Sosa broke 61. [/B][/QUOTE]1)Yup, they were both shot full of legal drugs, not illegal drugs. And no, the result isn't the same imo. Someone taking a painkilling shot to enable them to play in a game is not the same as is if that same player took anabolic steroids to put on 40 pounds of muscle.

2) I never left my senses. I always remain calm, cool and collected even under the most difficult of circumstances.

3) Me too.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) What do Kirk Gibson & Willis Reed have in common? They are men, who when you wouldn't trust them to carry an egg from the refrig to the frying pan, pulled out one single miracle performance only because they were both shot full of drugs.

2) Good to see you've come back to your senses.

3) Some of us pissed on the record book back when Mcgwire & Sosa broke 61. [/B]

1)Yup, they were both shot full of legal drugs, not illegal drugs. And no, the result isn't the same imo. Someone taking a painkilling shot to enable them to play in a game is not the same as is if that same player took anabolic steroids to put on 40 pounds of muscle.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't buy it.

Painkillers enhance performance. Period. And when compared to steroids their effects are much, much quicker. (Thankfully for some of us )

The only difference is that *usually* the painkillers are prescribed by a MD.

What would you say if it was revealed that Gibson had someone illegally inject cortisone & whatever-caine into his knees before his famous at bat, instead of an MD doing it legally?

[bebanovich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

. . . we drank the tea & pee'ed over the side of the ship.

And you STILL managed to hit the record book? My respect for you is growing.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bebanovich

And you STILL managed to hit the record book? My respect for you is growing.

It's a big book. :shrug:

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Painkillers enhance performance. Period. And when compared to steroids their effects are much, much quicker. (Thankfully for some of us )

The only difference is that *usually* the painkillers are prescribed by a MD.

What would you say if it was revealed that Gibson had someone illegally inject cortisone & whatever-caine into his knees before his famous at bat, instead of an MD doing it legally? [/B][/QUOTE]Yup, painkillers sureashell do enhance performance. Corticosteroids do also. So does Viagra(so I've heard... I don't need it personally...nope,not me....nosir....no way). The difference? Painkillers and corticosteroids are legal if used as prescribed. The type of steroids that Bonds et al did aren't legal, and aren't prescribed.

Now, you can also also make a case along the same line for other substances too. Tobacco is legal. Marijuana isn't legal. What one is considered worse from a health standpoint?

The difference is that the stuff you're getting in your creaky knees, Dan, is legal and is meant specifically for the problems you have. That's completely different than taking a drug when you don't have a physical problem that needs treating, and that drug is illegal to boot.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The difference is that the stuff you're getting in your creaky knees, Dan, is legal and is meant specifically for the problems you have. That's completely different than taking a drug when you don't have a physical problem that needs treating, and that drug is illegal to boot.

Soooo...Barry Bonds doesn't have the right to consider the aging process a physical problem worth treating? Yet Kirk Gibson has the right to consider the pain in his beaten up knees a physical problem worth treating? They both only want to extend their career, after all.

(Leaving aside the legal issue of course. And the bad side effects of steroid use.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Soooo...Barry Bonds doesn't have the right to consider the aging process a physical problem worth treating? Yet Kirk Gibson has the right to consider the pain in his beaten up knees a physical problem worth treating? They both only want to extend their career, after all.

(Leaving aside the legal issue of course. And the bad side effects of steroid use.)

Well, if you wanna leave the legal and moral issues aside, I guess you can say that Bonds has got the right to get a Uzi and take care of all the sportswriters that are bothering him too.

Does that fit in with your argument?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, if you wanna leave the legal and moral issues aside, I guess you can say that Bonds has got the right to get a Uzi and take care of all the sportswriters that are bothering him too.

Does that fit in with your argument?

Uzi?

Why an uzi?

What's wrong with a good old made in the USA M16? He can even get a grenade launcher for the days when he's feeling too shaky to shoot straight. Can't do that with a damn Uzi.

Why buy an import? Why do you hate America?

btw...watching the 'Nova/Rutgers game on espn2? Not a bad game.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally posted by lucky1313
But it wasn't illegal while they were doing it. If it was not illegal, it must have been ok for them to use the juice. It was MLB that was looking for more ways to put fanny's in the seats anyway. Now they want to throw the players under the bus.

I believe the steroids were illegal drugs even if MLB didn't prohibit them expressly. Sort of like the Todd Bertuzzi attack on Steve Moore. If it happened on the street, 'ol #44 would've done time. McGwire/Sosa got me interested in baseball that summer, but neither one would get my vote if I had one. All you need to look at are before and after photos--skinny banjo hitter Sammy Sosa of the Texas Rangers vs vein popping muscleman Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs; Skinny Pittsburgh Pirate Barry Bonds vs old helmet is now too small Barry Bonds of the SF Giants; Beanpole Mark McGwire of the Oakland A's vs Telephone pole Mark Mcgwire of the St Louis Cardinals. And maybe the reason is now clear as to why Rafael Palmeiro became a spokesman for Viagra.

I believe that a lot of voters will focus on the Jim Rice type of guy in the next few years at the expense of the record breaker HR hitters once they become eligible. They may still get in, but they are not locks for 1st year entry anymore.

[26 Year Gap]

1) What do Kirk Gibson & Willis Reed have in common? They are men, who when you wouldn't trust them to carry an egg from the refrig to the frying pan, pulled out one single miracle performance only because they were both shot full of drugs.


A little difference considering Willis hardly even played in that game 7 and Gibson came in as a PH when you compare to a long drawn out period of sustained use.