Refs authority???

[81artmonk]

I was sitting the bench watching my coaching partner boys game the other day, he coaches boys and I coach the girls teams. He was tossed by the ref I feel for no reason. What authority does the ref have?? can he eject someone even if he has no good reason or justification??

On of his boys was chasing down a loose ball about to go out of bounds when he leaped up and tossed the ball back inbounds hitting the opposing teams player in the leg which caused the ball to go out with possession to my friends team. Well the ref called a T on my friends player for throwing the ball at the other player. I was watching and this is a common practice and was in no way malicious or with intent on harming, but only to toss it off the opposing player in order to save possession. Of course my friend jumped up and argued the T and was met with a stern warning to sit down and shut up. My friend than asked if the ref would come over and please explain why his player was getting a T. At that point he walked over and asked if my friend had an assistant coach? He said yes and than the ref ejected him from the game. I was completely shocked and thought that a ref has to have a good reason or some reasonably justification in order to eject someone?? Can they just eject becuase they have the power?? Bad ref or within his rights??

[fonzzy07]

Sounds like bad ref. Again this is a one sided story from a coach, I'd love to hear what the official has to say for himself. If it really happened like this and u really feel it was unjust, I would call the assignor and let him know, and also tell your AD so hopefully the school won't come down hard on him.

[mplagrow]

Yeah, I 've seen refs like that. I've worked with a couple like that. But you know what? I've never worked with them twice. The ref can toss the coach, but if he's being unreasonable, there are always consequences down the road.

[Adam]

Question for you coach.

Had your friend earned a Technical earlier? Sorry, allow me to rephrase; had a technical foul been called on your friend earlier in the game?

Now. If the ref determined that the player's intent had more malice than strategy, a T could be warranted. This depends on several factors we don't have access to.

Secondly, we have no idea what your friend had said prior to this incident. Perhaps he'd been given another T, or perhaps the ref called a flagrant T for his comments on this incident. The words used in his request can have an affect on this.

Then again, some refs will call ABS Ts. Accumulation of BS. Sometimes, oddly enough, the comments that actually draw the T seem "mild" compared with the crap from the rest of the game.

In the end, yes, the ref can eject if he so chooses.

If this was a case of an unwarranted ejection, your only recourse is after the game. Complain to the ones who hire the refs.

[rainmaker]

There are refs that are "drunk" with the power. As others have said, if you report them to their assignors or coordinators, you often won't see them again.

It is also possible that there's more to the story than we've heard. As Snaq says, the ABS Technical foul can appear to come out of nowhere, even if it's long overdue.

[crazy voyager]

What do you say about this?

Audience behaving badly. In a pause the away team asks me to send them away. I say
"I'm not responsible over the audince and have no authority over them, please ask the game administrator. He's responseble for the gym"
The team gets quite, upset, to say the least. And they try to dictate my authoroties claiming that a ref their last game threw audiance out. They didn't calm down until I said "sit down or I have to give you a technical". I did noting and I didn't think the audiance were bad either, I don't think the coach ever asked the administrator.
What do you say? Have I the power to throw audiance out? I've always been taught the referees powers end where the court does, coaches, players and officials. Not the audiance.

[SmokeEater]

I have ejected unruley Fans. Administer a Technical to the team who the fan is supporting and move along. It is absolutely the last resort though. I will give a coach every opportunity to try and convince his supporters to stay in line. It has been as simple as goin up to the coach during a dead ball situation and saying hey coach are those fans with you? They are gonna cost ya a couple of free throws if they continue in that manner. The coach knows and usually will send someone over to settle them down.

[mplagrow]

I've thrown out two fans in twelve years. I prefer to let game management deal with it, but sometimes they are not available. I have NOT penalized a team for a fan, and I'd let the coach know if I was getting close to doing it.

[Junker]

What's the head coach doing? Why isn't he the one asking for an explanation? When an assistant is complaining, they are playing with fire. If things happened as written, your friend probably earned a T (for jumping off the bench and complaining), but not probably not an ejection. Also, how did your friend go about asking for an explanation? Tone can be alot. As far as the player T, sounds like we'd have to see it to make a judgment. There might have been more going on than one player tossing the ball to another. What level of basketball is this by the way?

[NothernVA_Ump]

In house leauge play, I threw out a friend of one of the coachs for continually comming onto the court during dead ball periods. I gave him 2 warnings to stay off of the court. After the 2nd warning the "fan" talked back and said he could shoot if he wanted to. Once I ejected the "fan", I heard one of the assistant coaches yell, "That I did not have the authority to do so." I went over to the head coach and told him, if I hear one more word from that assistant he was gone too. The reason I didn't toss the assistant was that this team had 2 assistant coaches and I could not pinpoint which one made the comment.

The reason I keep the court clear of non players is that we are given an hour and ten minutes to get each game over.

Now if it would of been a player from the following game (a non adult) I would of just kept telling them no shooting and leave it at that.

[81artmonk]

As for the level of play, it was middle school. Explains alot right there. Remember I was sitting on the bench so this was first hand reporting. Up until the T was called there were no words or verbal sparing with the ref. It was a rather well managed game cleanly played and called, up until the T. From my view point, there didn't seem to be any trouble brewing on the court between the two boys who were involved in the "questionable" bad call. My friends player didn't appear through the game to be getting frustrated or acting out towards the other team. It appeared to be a regular game without incident. As I recall, when the T was called, my friend jumped up and yelled " you have got to be kidding" "What's the technical for?" The ref than told my friend to sit down and shut up. My friend than looked to the other ref with his hands up wanting an explanation. The other reg wouldn't help so he walked over closer to the ref and said " What's the T for?? The ref ignored him. he walked closer and said, quit ignoring me, I would like an explanation for why you called a T?? at that point the ref walked over and asked if my friend had an assistant coach, and when my freind said yes he ejected him. I have seen flagrant misuse of power by a ref in my own adult evening basketball league, but this was very shocking. Most refs I deal with will at some point come over and calmly explain thier reasoning and give me a chance to debate it briefly. Since the game was going well and there didn't appear to be any mouthing off on either teams part or coaches, I was really taken aback by this refs actions. An hour before, he refed my game, and before the game pulled a I am the ref and don't qustion me, speech, so I enjoyed the GOD complex attitude from him an hour before.

[Jurassic Referee]

Let me get back to you after I hear the referee's version, coach.

Until then.......

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Let me get back to you after I hear the referee's version, coach.

Until then.......

81ArtMonk, since you're new to the board, there's a few things you've got to understand.

Anyone who starts hammering on a ref here is not going to get much sympathy. Especially when you're new to the board.

I've seen some pretty aweful things from refs. Most of us have. But a nameless ref who can't defend his point of view is going to be given the benefit of the doubt here, whether you think it's right or wrong.

If you want someone to tell you, "Yeah, you're right! He was way out of line!" You're probably not going to find it here.

[SmokeEater]

81ArtMonk,
"Yeah, you're right! He was way out of line!"

But do I mean the Coach or the ref?