Billy Packer vs. Dick Vitale

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jesse James

Or, you might know the rule very well, and while giving the push signal at the table, say, over the back, instead of push, or push in the back.

I personally do not say anything at the table. I let my signals do the talking.

One term is not going to prove or disprove that you know the rules. I just think if you are using terms that are not "rulebook language" you set yourself up for more criticism and you are giving ammo to anyone to take you down a notch.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Jesse James

Or, you might know the rule very well, and while giving the push signal at the table, say, over the back, instead of push, or push in the back.

Why would any official say "over the back" when giving a push signal? Why would an official want to use "fan speak?" Dumb.

Z

[blindzebra]

I say start a fire to burn Packer at the stake using Vitale as kindling.

As for actually knowing the rules and explaining them, Jay Bilas wins hands down.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by JRutledge
[BI personally do not say anything at the table. I let my signals do the talking.
Peace [/B]

Is there a reason for this? Even in a loud gym, a scorekeeper will read your lips while looking at your signals. I don't agree with an official not saying anything. I think voice is an important component of our communication.

[ChuckElias]

Tom, at the HS and college level, we're told NOT to vocalize at the table. Just give the signal. If you want to vocalize "BLOCK" or "handcheck" when you blow the whistle, that's fine. But all that's required at the table is a signal.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Tom, at the HS and college level, we're told NOT to vocalize at the table. Just give the signal. If you want to vocalize "BLOCK" or "handcheck" when you blow the whistle, that's fine. But all that's required at the table is a signal.

By "we" are you talking about people in Mass? I have NEVER heard that, including the camp we both attended last summer. The only thing that comes to mind is "huh?" because this one is totally new to me. I would have thought someone at Mickey's camp would have said something to me about it if that is the preference. In all my other camps on the east and west coast, it has always been the preference to verbalize at the table.

Upon further review, I say no this isn't correct. Surely, someone I've worked with and in front of would have said, "Tom, don't verbalize at the table." In all the thousands of dicussions I've had with other officials, nobody has ever said an assigner, clinician or supervisor told them to NOT verbalize at the table. It simply would have come up sometime over the years. I'm not saying I don't listen to what a high school assigner would tell me to do but... As far as college assignors and evaluators, this is clearly a regional/local preference which does not carry over to larger conferences and camps. That, I'm sure of.

[Edited by tomegun on Mar 8th, 2006 at 02:30 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Tom, I agree with you, my first reaction to his post was "We?"

Maybe Chuck is confused because so many people just tell him to shut up?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Tom, at the HS and college level, we're told NOT to vocalize at the table. Just give the signal. If you want to vocalize "BLOCK" or "handcheck" when you blow the whistle, that's fine. But all that's required at the table is a signal.

I was taught exactly the opposite. I was not vocalizing the type of foul at the table and was told to do so (at a camp run and evaluated by D1 officials).

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by tomegun
Is there a reason for this? Even in a loud gym, a scorekeeper will read your lips while looking at your signals. I don't agree with an official not saying anything. I think voice is an important component of our communication.

I do not use the voice to signal the foul call. I was told a long time ago that you really did not need to use your voice to call out the kind of foul. One of the reasons is if you say “push” or “hold” the coach might say something about it or argue openly. Not saying the signals do not allow the coach to say anything about what came out of your mouth. I have since not found a good reason to verbalize the foul. My signals can do all the talking for me. I only use my voice to call out the number on foul signaling at the table.

Peace

[MajorCord]

Hey guys! Can we get back to the Packer vs. Vitale thing?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by MajorCord
Hey guys! Can we get back to the Packer vs. Vitale thing?

Actually this is what happens during the off season. We start one of these irrelevant conversations and then go off on several directions that have nothing to do with the original topic. Welcome to your first off-season here.

Here is more evidence we are all crazy at this time of the year.

More evidence we are crazy

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Mar 8th, 2006 at 03:58 PM]

[LarryS]

Originally posted by tomegun

Is there a reason for this? Even in a loud gym, a scorekeeper will read your lips while looking at your signals. I don't agree with an official not saying anything. I think voice is an important component of our communication. [/B]

Why does the scorekeeper care if it was a push, hold, block, etc? All they really need is the color and number...unless it is a T so they can mark the correct box. Most of the time, the people I am reporting to look down once they hear color and number.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I only use my voice to call out the number on foul signaling at the table.
Peace

OK, I continue on with what type of foul it is, but I thought you meant you went over to the table and didn't say anything. The only difference between what you do and what I do is I will say "push" at the end and you will just give the signal. I will still continue to verbalize what I have because that is just the way I do it. Now that I understand what you're saying I can see what you mean.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by LarryS
Why does the scorekeeper care if it was a push, hold, block, etc? All they really need is the color and number...unless it is a T so they can mark the correct box. Most of the time, the people I am reporting to look down once they hear color and number.

Good points, but there are some good scorekeepers who will wait for you to finish and some scorekeepers that need the clarity of lips moving. I just prefer verbal as well as using the signals.

[Rick82358]

tomegun;
no body has told you about the not verbalizing rule because they were told not verbalize these things - it could hurt someones feelings.


Now if we could just get Dickie V not to verbalize life could be so much better!

I like the idea about the burning at the stake.

How about limited thermo-nuclear strikes -
It takes care of the problem - those that are whining about it and you don't have to worry about it for about 35 or 40 years!