Two Nights - Two OT's - Two Reactions

[K-Bach]

I apologize, in advance, for the length.

Yesterday, BV game, zone playoff -- first game in best of 3. Teams are from small towns, 100 km apart. Close all the way -- fans screaming, coaches yelling, players diving after loose balls and deflecting passes all night. Fantastic! Questions are asked politely and answered where practical. Players react to calls emotionally, but recover quickly (a couple even apologized for thinking bad thoughts). Anyway, home team covers a 10 point deficit in the last 4 minutes, takes the lead, by two, with 3.5 sec left. Visitors pass to half court, then to the basket for the alley-oop lay-in at the buzzer. In OT, home team dominates, wins by ten. Both coaches greet my partner and I at the table to thank us for a great game and we reciprocate. Great drive home; been feeling great all day and really the lovin' the prospect of getting game 3.

Tonight, BV game, zone playoff -- first game in best of 3. Schools are across the street from one another.
Close all the way -- fans screaming, home coach yelling instructions to his players and politely asking questions during dead ball periods, visiting coach telling his players not to worry about the calls ("this guy's had it out for you guys all year"), players diving after loose balls and deflecting passes all night, home team (A) playing hard and playing well, visitors (B) playing hard and whining about every call I make and even some my partner makes (still my fault though). 2nd half - I'm lead,B1 drives to hole along the baseline, A2 is set and waiting -- collision sends A2 into B2, on the lane, then OOB. I call the PC, B's coach is convinced that A2 fouled B2 and solicits my partner (T on bench side) to change my mind. As they begin to 'converse,' B1 throws the ball at the face of A2, who's just beginning to sort himself out on the floor OOB. "Whack!" Coach B, is about to lose it. I report both, adding the phrase, "throwing the ball at the face of another player," to the end of the T. I administrate the FT's while my partner bears the brunt of coach's wrath, which now centers on why I should have given a warning (partner delivers warning to coach). From then on, team B plays well, but w/o discipline. Best player fouls out, best whiner T's out (I didn't call it, but it's still my fault).
Team A scores 6 in the final 8 seconds to tie.

OT isn't even close; Team B resorts to fouling with 2 minutes left, down by 8 (???), and coach wonders why I'm calling the initial contact, even though my partner and I are alternating calls, instead of letting them really "foul 'em." At a TO, my partner and I agree that he's close to a T, but lunatic ramblings will be allowable during OT. [edited for accuracy]

A wins by 16; coach thanks my partner at the table for a great game, noticeable hurting my feelings in the process; his AD, whom I coach against during the football season, comments to my partner as we leave the building, "great game, buddy, too bad we've still got to win by 18, eh." No response from either of us; my partner turns his back on the AD -- I hide my snickering in my coat collar. Long drive home, less than 10 minutes; really hatin' the prospect of getting game 3.

Kudos to my partner for backing every call I made and dealing with a coach who's got no clue about what constitutes sportsmanship, but I really needed to vent!

[Edited by K-Bach on Mar 8th, 2006 at 08:49 AM]

[Nevadaref]

A couple of comments.
1. You should not concern yourself with the happiness of the coach or AD following the contest or whether or not they thank you. You are there to fairly administer a contest and not to please them.
Possibly being a football coach yourself, your approach in this regard is different, but in the long run you will be happier if you learn to separate the coach in you from your officiating role.

2. Some games go as your first game described. Everything is pleasant and you leave with a smile. Others don't. There are games when no one liked your officiating. You can't control the reactions of others, only your own. Just do your job and then leave. While driving home refer to #1.

3. Some specifics from your second game.

Originally posted by K-Bach
visiting coach telling his players not to worry about the calls ("this guy's had it out for you guys all year"),

My opinion is to T the coach when you hear this comment. It lacks class. If his behavior continues to be poor, assess the second T and the game will be much more enjoyable for you without this fool.

Originally posted by K-Bach
B1 throws the ball at the face of A2, who's just beginning to sort himself out on the floor OOB. "Whack!" Coach B, is about to lose it. I report both, adding the phrase, "throwing the ball at the face of another player," to the end of the T.

Did this ball actually strike the opponent in the face? If so, I hope you considered calling this a FLAGRANT technical foul.

Originally posted by K-Bach
At a TO, he's close to a T, but lunatic ramblings will be allowable during OT.

Why do believe this? Did this coach do anything to deserve some leeway? Was his behavior good until that point and he had a tough decision go against his club? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

Remember that whatever behavior you allow will be demonstrated. I strongly urge you to reconsider your thinking on this. From your description of this contest, it is quite likely that the coach should not have been around for the extra period.

Look at the contrast in the behavior of the two coaches in your game. When you have one coach who is well-behaved and representing his program with class, why can't the other coach conduct himself similarly? What is the standard of conduct that you desire from coaches? What are you willing to do to obtain it?

Originally posted by K-Bach
best whiner T's out

Not surprising. Perhaps preventable though.
The kids normally follow the example of their leader. Take care of Batman, and Robin will usually fall into line.

[Jurassic Referee]

K-Bach, you're your own worse enemy imo if you allow nonsense like that continually from a coach and his players. You condoned the actions of the coach and his players by refusing to do anything about them.

You reap what you sow. Sorry, but you really don't have any major complaints in my mind. You coulda put a stop to it if you wanted to. You didn't want to.

Welcome to the forum.

[tomegun]

K-Bach, welcome to the forum.

1. I don't think "close all the way" and "home team covers a 10 point deficit in the last 4 minutes" go together.

2. Is it your associations normal practice to go to the table after games? If not, I wouldn't.

3. Like Nevada said, the visiting coach should have got a T for his comments.

4. Depending on the game, I might have just tossed the kid for throwing the ball at the other kid. Search for two adults and 10 kids that want to be part of a basketball game. Eliminate all others - 5 whistles (fouls), 2 whistles (Ts) or one whistle (T).

5. IMO, if your partner was really backing every call you made he wouldn't have to take the brunt of the coach. If it is the second half he shouldn't be near the coach anyway. If it is the first half, he could show the coach the rear end and observe the players. The message is clear that the coach should leave it alone or show everyone in the facility that he deserved and earned a T (he really already earned a T).

6. When you are a ref, ref. When you are a coach, coach.

How long have you been officiating?
Where do you live?

[Forksref]

With a few minutes left in the game we, as a crew (2 or 3), decide if we will go to the center circle after the buzzer or go straight off the court. It depends on the behavior/attitude of the players, coaches, fans, etc. We never go to the table.

[K-Bach]

Nevadaref, I've edited the original post to clarify the leeway.

General responses:
I've been officiating 7 years in Alberta.

This is the only coach I have had negative dealings with on a regular basis, most of which have quickly been forgotten (by me anyway).

I don't know if it's an Alberta thing or a Canada thing in general, but most Varsity games end with the officials checking the scoresheet, then being approached by players/coaches/team officials for a handshake and a 'thank you.' There is generally a great deal of respect across our province between coaches/players and officials. If there has been a controversy, the coaches have nearly always avoided the table until we have cleared the floor.

The ball did not strike the player's face because his hands moved fast enough to deflect it -- thought about the flagrant, but though thrown aggressively, the act was more disdainful than intended to injure.

Not complaining, as such, just venting. I'm not pleased with the way we managed the coach, but that's the way it went.

Coaching against the AD is another season, but I just loved the way both treated the situation in a strikingly similar manner. Players influenced by coach's misbehaviour, who's influenced by AD's misbehaviour.

I will not complain about my partner; he managed a man whose concept of sportsmanship demands that his team never be penalilzed unless they draw blood and bones are clearly visible outside the skin, maybe without assessing a well-deserved T, but he and I will discuss that over a beverage some day. In any case, the game was played well.

[bannind]

My 2 cents.

On the ball being thrown at the players face. (my own personal feelings) If he threw it at the players noggin - flagrant. You got lucky that the kid managed to get his hands up in the way, but he threw the ball at the kids head plain and simple. There is no reason to do that - if you feel he actually intended to hit the kid with the ball I can't see how it isn't flagrant. If it earns the T, I would feel it should be flagrant.

But let me ask another question - knowing the intensity of the game, once you had the player control did you close down on the kids so that nothing extra ciricular would happen? When I have a high intensity game like that with a hard foul, the first thing I do is close and make sure that I am extremely visible (if not in between them helping all parties get up) along with being very vocal 'good hustle everyone' 'lets get up clean' - just something to remind the players to keep their cool so that something stupid doesn't happen.

It sucks that it is the 'norm' for you to go to the bench after a game, even when it is calm wonderful game. I try to make sure that the scorekeeper knows that if there is something wrong with the book they need to let me know before the final buzzer to get it fixed, if possible. Once that final horn goes off all I do is make eye contact with them, a simple nod, and we are gone. It could be the cultural differences between the US and Canada or regional, but after a game the last thing I want to have happen is for a dialog to occur between myself/the crew and either team while on the court. If we are walking to our cars and a coach wants to say - good game, that is fine - I just don't feel comfortable addressing players or coaches directly after a game while on the court. But then again I am so 'anal' that I don't like it when a player or coach says good luck before a game - simply because I would hope that coach doesn't think I need luck to do the game. I have even changed my pre-game conference to 'play well' instead of good luck - but that goes back to the previous comment of being a little 'anal'.

Like all advice or comments, take it for what it is worth. As long as you are reviewing the situation in an attempt to better yourself and your calling ability, that is what matters. Even if you don't change anything, the fact that you are open to other opinions and open to reviewing your performance in the game is a big compliment to yourself as an official.

dan

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

My opinion is to T the coach when you hear this comment. It lacks class. If his behavior continues to be poor, assess the second T and the game will be much more enjoyable for you without this fool.[/B]

I am going to disagree with this statement. I agree the comment lacks class and shows a lack of sportsmanship. I would not call a T for this especially if the coach made the comment away from me or my partners. I would rather put this comment in my mental bank and get the coach later at a more appropriate manner when he really flies off the handle. I do not feel this is an automatic or necessarily something that needs to be addressed. Coaches are going to say all kinds of things during a game. I personally do not see the point to worrying about what they have to say most of the time.

Peace

[Junker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I am going to disagree with this statement. I agree the comment lacks class and shows a lack of sportsmanship. I would not call a T for this especially if the coach made the comment away from me or my partners. I would rather put this comment in my mental bank and get the coach later at a more appropriate manner when he really flies off the handle. I do not feel this is an automatic or necessarily something that needs to be addressed. Coaches are going to say all kinds of things during a game. I personally do not see the point to worrying about what they have to say most of the time.

Peace [/B]

I think this one can be a T. If you are out on the block during your time out mechanics and can hear a coach saying this, it needs to be taken care of. If you just happen to be beside the huddle, taking the ball out or answering a question at the table, It might be quiet enough to ignore it. Also, along with the original post, don't go to the table after the game. As a wise man often writes...get in, get it done, get out.

[Rick82358]

if one player throws a ball at another player we have an ejection!

I know you guys north of the border are a little more liad back - but come on folks - this is definatively an unsporting act deserving of an ejection.

great game - impact player - I do not care I think any supervisor worth his weight would get all over you for not taking that player out of the mix.

[K-Bach]

On the original PC, I had just finished signalling, still facing the players. The throw happened very quickly, though the norm is to step into the play, just in case, which is what I did as I whistled the T.

The throw itself was at the head of the prone defender, but not hard enough IMO to indicate an attempt to injure...and, yes, it was lucky the defender was able to protect himself (otherwise it would have been called flagrant).

Thanks for all the comments...I will learn from this, as I do all games, but I REALLY needed to vent too.

Finally, I haven't posted before, but I have noticed that many posts I've read in the past year include game atmosphere I'll never have to deal with, even at the college or university level. For instance, I have never seen nor heard of police escorts in Alberta (or Canada), or even police in the gym (I've never even been in a school that has security guards, anywhere in Alberta). We just don't take varsity athletics as seriously. Cultural and regional difference, I guess. I don't see going to the table as "sucking," rather I often wish you guys could experience a close, emotionally charged game, complete with yelling, disagreement and a T or two that ends in respectful, if grudging, appreciation. Occasionally, I'd like to experience the intensity of "U.S. style" competition as an official myself -- I've loved every aspect of the NCAA games I've attended.