Taking a charge

[Junker]

I'd like to see this rule changed. To me, legal guarding position inherently means that you are trying to stop a player from scoring. How are you stopping a player from scoring if you are playing defense directly under the rim? I'm a fan of the semi-circle. Anyone else with thoughts on this?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Junker
I'd like to see this rule changed. To me, legal guarding position inherently means that you are trying to stop a player from scoring. How are you stopping a player from scoring if you are playing defense directly under the rim? I'm a fan of the semi-circle. Anyone else with thoughts on this?

By forcing the offense to alter the lay-up, or take a short jumper, the defense is reducing the chance of a successful try. That's part of "playing defense". I'd vote against the semi-circle.

[Junker]

A good point Bob, but to me, most of the time when the defense ends up right under the basket it is because they are not in good initial defensive position. Yes, I can see that it will alter a lay-up or force a short jumper, but to me, if you are guarding someone, get out on the floor and stop them from getting to the rim. Parking yourself under the rim and waiting for contact just seems to be a little...well I think cheap is the best word for it (I was looking for a clear way to make my point and have writer's block).

[TriggerMN]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

So many misconceptions in this thread. Jeez. It seems like I have to repeat this every single time this topic comes up. So here goes:

Even in NBA and NCAAW it is possible to draw a charge directly beneath the basket!!!! However, it's only possible on certain kinds of plays.

In the NBA:

• the Restricted Area rules apply only to a secondary defender. The primary defender can take a charge anywhere. But the "help" defender cannot be in the semi-circle.
• the Restricted Area rules don't apply at all if the play begins inside the Lower Defensive Box.
• the Restricted Area rules don't allow the offensive player to use his non-shooting arm to clear space or to prevent the defender from attacking the ball. Using the arm this way would still be an offensive foul.
• the Restricted Area rules don't mandate that any contact within the semi-circle must be called a block. The official has the discretion to no-call it.

In NCAAW:

• A player control foul may be called directly under the basket if the play is a drive parallel to the endline.

Let's please try to understand the actual rules before we give sweeping generalities.

Chuck-->

This is why I said it "can" be a true statement, and not that it "is" a true statement. I will try to make myself more clear the next time!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Junker
A good point Bob, but to me, most of the time when the defense ends up right under the basket it is because they are not in good initial defensive position. Yes, I can see that it will alter a lay-up or force a short jumper, but to me, if you are guarding someone, get out on the floor and stop them from getting to the rim. Parking yourself under the rim and waiting for contact just seems to be a little...well I think cheap is the best word for it (I was looking for a clear way to make my point and have writer's block).

Well, cheap is all a lot of high school players have! At the skill level of the NBA, I can see being this restrictive, but for hs and rec ball, it makes sense to give players whatever can be available. Rarely do I see anyone "parking" under the rim. Usually the "take the charge" is set up within a second of the shot, and in that case, I think it's good defense where ever it happens.

[Junker]

How are you defending the rim from directly below it?

[mick]

Originally posted by Junker
How are you defending the rim from directly below it?

Forget the rim, Junker.
Think disruption of

the shooter's path,

the shooter's balance,

the shooter's release.

That's good defense, too.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Junker
A good point Bob, but to me, most of the time when the defense ends up right under the basket it is because they are not in good initial defensive position. Yes, I can see that it will alter a lay-up or force a short jumper, but to me, if you are guarding someone, get out on the floor and stop them from getting to the rim. Parking yourself under the rim and waiting for contact just seems to be a little...well I think cheap is the best word for it (I was looking for a clear way to make my point and have writer's block).

Sure, it's "better" to be farther out on the court. Any coach would agree. But, it's "better" to be under the rim than to not play defense at all.

[Junker]

I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, I do not use an imaginary rim when I call a game. A charge can be taken at any place on the court. I do feel, however, that a player under the rim, while they can alter a shot, is primarily there trying to draw a foul. I personally would like the ring. To me, not having it is letting defenses take a small advantage of a rule. I know that's part of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[mick]

Originally posted by Junker
I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, I do not use an imaginary rim when I call a game. A charge can be taken at any place on the court. I do feel, however, that a player under the rim, while they can alter a shot, is primarily there trying to draw a foul. I personally would like the ring. To me, not having it is letting defenses take a small advantage of a rule. I know that's part of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I dunno, Junker.
A hunert years ago, if I was going to the hole and a defender was under the hoop, I wouldn't have given it a thought.
mick

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Junker
I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, I do not use an imaginary rim when I call a game. A charge can be taken at any place on the court. I do feel, however, that a player under the rim, while they can alter a shot, is primarily there trying to draw a foul. I personally would like the ring. To me, not having it is letting defenses take a small advantage of a rule. I know that's part of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

You're still talking about someone who is just camped there under the rim, waiting for a shooter to come flying in. If a player is using good defense by guarding the shooter, gauging where to stand in order for the shooter to have to alter her path, under the rim can be a great place to be. But she's not going to be there very long!

[CW30]

The offensive player was dribbling baseline, either to shoot a reverse layup or pass. The defender cut off baseline (which he is suppose to do, GOOD D) offensive player tramples the defensive player and defensive player is called for a foul. All because the ref says you cant take a charge under the basket. I didnt belittle the ref, I just told him that you can take a charge under the basket. We do play highschool rules, and the ref is a high school ref.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by CW30
The offensive player was dribbling baseline, either to shoot a reverse layup or pass. The defender cut off baseline (which he is suppose to do, GOOD D) offensive player tramples the defensive player and defensive player is called for a foul. All because the ref says you cant take a charge under the basket. I didnt belittle the ref, I just told him that you can take a charge under the basket. We do play highschool rules, and the ref is a high school ref.

Particularly on a baseline drive. This ref has missed the boat on understanding the issue of being under the basket. In all leagues (NBA, NCAA, and NFHS), this is a charge. A case of listening to cliches and not understanding the principles behind them.