Injury, Or Not???

[a4caster]

This just came to mind after reviewing my last game. Probably discussed, but definately has some interesting options.

Team A is down by 4 with about :07 left, give or take. Shooting foul as well. A is out of TO's. Makes both shots. Player A goes down on the floor after boxing out, claiming he twisted his ankle. This could be a deliberate act to give Team A a chance to review the situation. But, how can you be sure? Are you really going to say, "He's faking, let him lay." Yeah, you can call the "T", but then, that implies that you think he is faking. You beckon the coach, and the visitor's are screaming murder. Is there any good way to make this situation any better?

Just a hypothetical, never happened, but could!

[ChrisSportsFan]

I'm also interested in hearing thoughts on this. The entire sitch would have to happen pretty quick as team B knows they'll be pressured and probably look to get the ball in quickly. If nothing is called and B gets the ball in play, A is now at a 4-5 disadvantage.

[mplagrow]

That's where I like soccer rules. Let him sit until the next dead ball. Look at it this way, he's down for seven seconds (at the longest). No ankle injury will become fatal in seven seconds. I'd let the play finish out.

[BktBallRef]

If the thrower has the ball, the ball is live. 9 times out of 10, we're playing.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
If the thrower has the ball, the ball is live. 9 times out of 10, we're playing.

I like that statement...and the implied philosophy.

One call one night...might not, necsessarily, be a call on another night.

That is where the officials' common sense and knowledge of the game come into play...as BBR said quite well, with the "9 times out of 10" comment.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by a4caster
This just came to mind after reviewing my last game. Probably discussed, but definately has some interesting options.

Team A is down by 4 with about :07 left, give or take. Shooting foul as well. A is out of TO's. Makes both shots. Player A goes down on the floor after boxing out, claiming he twisted his ankle. This could be a deliberate act to give Team A a chance to review the situation. But, how can you be sure? Are you really going to say, "He's faking, let him lay." Yeah, you can call the "T", but then, that implies that you think he is faking. You beckon the coach, and the visitor's are screaming murder. Is there any good way to make this situation any better?

Just a hypothetical, never happened, but could!

I am confused here. Could you use please describe this play in a casebook format. For example: A1 is fouled by B1 while in the act of shooting. While this is happening, A2 falls to the floor in the free throw lane with a twisted ankle. Is this how the play went? If this is the case then we can have a meaningful discussion about this situation. Until then the play as described in the original post is very incomplete.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

MDT, A2 falls down with the injury immediately after A1 makes the 2nd of his two free throws bringing his team within 2.

Hopefully, the lead sees him fall and can have a pretty good idea of whether it was a legitimate injury. If he falls down without contact, there's a good chance I'm letting play continue.

[Dribble]

One thing to consider is that with so little time left on the clock and assuming that A2 (the one who went down) isn't an offense-defense sub, then he/she is probably a quality player and the coach wants that player on the court.

If the ball isn't at the disposal of the thrower, then you could blow your whistle and then A2 will probably be sitting out for a critical play.

Personally, A2 would have to have more than a simple ankle injury for me to blow this play down. If I hear the "snap, crackle, pop" of the ankle, then it's a different story, of course.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Dribble
One thing to consider is that with so little time left on the clock and assuming that A2 (the one who went down) isn't an offense-defense sub, then he/she is probably a quality player and the coach wants that player on the court.

If the ball isn't at the disposal of the thrower, then you could blow your whistle and then A2 will probably be sitting out for a critical play.

Personally, A2 would have to have more than a simple ankle injury for me to blow this play down. If I hear the "snap, crackle, pop" of the ankle, then it's a different story, of course.

Not necessarily. The coach could have inserted him for just this tactic. Also, coaches make defensive/offensive substitutions all the time during the last seconds of a close game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
MDT, A2 falls down with the injury immediately after A1 makes the 2nd of his two free throws bringing his team within 2.

Hopefully, the lead sees him fall and can have a pretty good idea of whether it was a legitimate injury. If he falls down without contact, there's a good chance I'm letting play continue.

Snags:

Lets put this play in to context then. A1 has just made the free throw. Dollars to donuts says that Team B is just getting a player out of bounds to attempt a throw-in pass about the time A2 hits the floor. If this play happened with 5:35 left in the second quarter, would you stop play immediately to take care of A2? Of course you would. The time left in the game is not relevant. We are dealing with H.S. age and younger players. Unless you have very deep pockets, always error on the side of safety.

MTD, Sr.

[Dribble]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Not necessarily. The coach could have inserted him for just this tactic. Also, coaches make defensive/offensive substitutions all the time during the last seconds of a close game.

Exactly...that's why I prefaced my post by saying that we're assuming that A2 wasn't brought in as a scrub to fulfill this role (via offense-defense sub).

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snags:

Lets put this play in to context then. A1 has just made the free throw. Dollars to donuts says that Team B is just getting a player out of bounds to attempt a throw-in pass about the time A2 hits the floor. If this play happened with 5:35 left in the second quarter, would you stop play immediately to take care of A2? Of course you would. The time left in the game is not relevant. We are dealing with H.S. age and younger players. Unless you have very deep pockets, always error on the side of safety.

MTD, Sr.

There are rule applications that change because of time remaining...attempts at delay of game, or running OOB by the defense to stop play in the closing seconds...that can justify not automatically stopping play in this situation.

[Adam]

Blindzebra nails it. In this case, if I see the kid fall when the ankle didn't twist, I'm letting it go. I often let the play take shape before whistling the play dead on a defensive injury anyway. If the player is in peril, I'll likely err on the side of safety. If he falls in the middle of the crowd, and I'm convinced he's taking a dive, I'm hitting him with a T.
If I'm not sure, and he's in the middle of the play (somewhat likely given the likely full court press, unless his teammates stand around doing nothing), I'll whistle it dead.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Blindzebra nails it. In this case, if I see the kid fall when the ankle didn't twist, I'm letting it go. I often let the play take shape before whistling the play dead on a defensive injury anyway. If the player is in peril, I'll likely err on the side of safety. If he falls in the middle of the crowd, and I'm convinced he's taking a dive, I'm hitting him with a T.
If I'm not sure, and he's in the middle of the play (somewhat likely given the likely full court press, unless his teammates stand around doing nothing), I'll whistle it dead.

And just how do you know he didn't twist his ankle. You have six players in the free throw lane jostling for position for a possible missed free throw and you are concentrating on watching the player's feet to see if one twists his ankle. My ankles are so shot, that I don't need to twist my ankle to go down. I suffered a stress fracture in my right foot this July while officiating a basketball game. I was just running down the court, I didn't land awkwardly on my foot while running, it just happened.

There is no way you can tell if he is taking a dive. I am not saying that it is not possible for a player to take a dive, but the probability of it is highly unlikely. Remember you are dealing with players who are H.S. age and younger. The safety of the players always, I repeat always, comes first.

The fact that an official would think more about a player taking a dive than being concerened about the safety of the player tells me that something is amiss in his officiating priorities.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And just how do you know he didn't twist his ankle.

There is no way you can tell if he is taking a dive.

I agree with Mark. You don't really know for sure whether the player is hurt or taking a dive. You also don't know for sure that it's a set play by the coach. Suspecting something isn't the same as knowing something.

I'd rather err on the side of safety anyway.

I really don't know what real advantage the defense is gonna get out of this play, no matter what, if you do stop play. A well-coached team would be into it's defense right away as soon as the thrower was hitting OOB anyway. The defenders all should know where to go and who to defend. They had the 2 FT's to figure that out. And the throwing team is still gonna able to run the end line too, no matter what.

Btw, a "T" for "faking being injured" on this play? Oh my!

Jmo.