What is with this attitude

[Brian Watson]

I buy the fact that more people in the world are playing the game than americans, but it will be a while before they play it better than us on a consistant basis.

Look at Hockey, Canadians were far superior for many, many years, now it is about 60-40 to the rest of the world in the NHL. Are there more non-canadians than canadians playing the game all over the world, yes. Are the non-canucks better at it, not yet.

We could probably repeat this argument over and over just substituting the sports and country names but these come to mind:

USA Track vs the world
Asian Volleyball vs the world
Soccer in Europe or South America vs the world
Rugby in Australia vs the world
Any russian or former russian country gymnast vs the world (although I only see this every 4 years, so it is a best guess).

This whole disagrement boils down to on thing - desire. I have no need or desire to ever work an international game. I think that is the main sticking point to the way Americans view the international game. It is not ugly americanism, just apathy. Tragic or MJ may have said those things, but I have to say the Olympics looked like a effort for the last few dream teams. I would say some flat out did not want to be there. The college kids used to love going because it was their spring board to a higher draft spot in the NBA. Now it is just work.

[Tim Roden]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
I wonder how many people in America are certifed international fiba refs. My guess is not many.

To give you a good idea. In Colorado Springs, Home of USA Basketball, our High School association of 150 had only three officials that I knew of certified for FIBA. Check with USA Basketball if you want the total number of officials certified.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Oz Referee


1. Funny, I would have said that the NBA is moving just as much towards FIBA as FIBA is to the NBA. Have a look at the "illegal defence" rule which is the most obvious (but not only) example.

Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You made the following statement earlier in this discussion.

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Seems to me, that NCAA is fairly similar to the FIBA rules that I started refereeing with (some 15 years ago). While the current FIBA rules are moving more closely towards NBA (or vice versa).

So which is it? Is the NBA moving to FIBA rules or is FIBA moving towards NBA rules? Make up your mind.

2. Do the math. Say the percentage of Americans that play organised basketball (not counting pickup games) is 10% that is approximately 30 million people. Which is less that 1% of the total population of the world. Just look at countries like China, Brazil, Germany, Nigeria, Australia, Canada, etc where basketball is already very popular, and growing exponentially.

Quite honestly, I'm not really concerned with how many people outside the US are playing basketball. It's growing and that's wonderful. But since we're discussing it, I just simply asked you to back it up with facts. It seems you can't.

Secondly, now you're putting put conditions on it, such as not counting pickup games. Sorry but millions of Americans play basketball each week, in leagues, at lunch at the YMCA, etc. You just can't discount those people. I believe that soccer enthusiasts will still tell you that soccer is the most popular sport internationally.

Lastly, do you really think that 10% of the world, outside the US plays basketball. I guess if you want to make the assumption that there are more people in the world playing basketball than there are in the USA, you possibly can. It's only based on the population of each. But I would still venture to guess that there are a higher percentage of Americans that participate in sports that play basketball than there is in the world or any other country.

Face it Oz, basketball is an American sport. The rest of the world is still catching up. Until they do, many will continue to refer to FIBA as FEEBLE.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oz Referee

Let's face it, basketball is a global game, that is part of what makes it great. There are more non-americans than Americans playing the game.

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm sure you can get us the figures to support such a bold statement.

2. Do the math. Say the percentage of Americans that play organised basketball (not counting pickup games) is 10% that is approximately 30 million people. Which is less that 1% of the total population of the world. Just look at countries like China, Brazil, Germany, Nigeria, Australia, Canada, etc where basketball is already very popular, and growing exponentially.

Ahh come on, this is a ridiculous argument. I claim that
100% of all Americans play basketball and less than .00001%
of the rest of the known universe plays basketball.
In fact, I'm claiming that there are an additional 100
million uncounted Americans playing organized basketball
today. So I'm right & you're wrong. (When you substantiate
your figures I'll substantiate mine.)

On a serious note, I'll be willing to bet that there are
more *kids* playing organized basketball up through the
12th grade in the US than there are *people* who even know
what a basketball looks like outside the US. Well, except
those who have seen a basketball being dribbled or shot by
an NBA guy on TV or in a picture.

[rockyroad]

Reminds me of the old saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"...if a person is playing or reffing in an area which uses FIBA rules, you better know the FIBA rules...if not, why should we care what the differences are? I had the opportunity several years ago to ref the Nike World Master's games in Portland, Oregon...it was a blast, and they used international rules for the most part...I worked one game with a guy from Canada and a guy from Australia - interesting to say the least...best part of the whole tournament was reffing the Australian Women's team of 30 and under - they wore those same uniform/tights things their Olympic team wears - made it awful hard to concentrate on the game!!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
...best part of the whole tournament was reffing the Australian Women's team of 30 and under - they wore those same uniform/tights things their Olympic team wears - made it awful hard to concentrate on the game!!

Is that because the numbers were in metric units???

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Reminds me of the old saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"...if a person is playing or reffing in an area which uses FIBA rules, you better know the FIBA rules...if not, why should we care what the differences are? I had the opportunity several years ago to ref the Nike World Master's games in Portland, Oregon...it was a blast, and they used international rules for the most part...I worked one game with a guy from Canada and a guy from Australia - interesting to say the least...best part of the whole tournament was reffing the Australian Women's team of 30 and under - they wore those same uniform/tights things their Olympic team wears - made it awful hard to concentrate on the game!!

Well, I think I will leave the whole FIBA vs USA, etc etc debate alone now. Everyone has their own opinion, and is entitled to it. At the very least, I got some interested (although slightly one-sided, give me some help guys!) debate occurring.

On to uniforms - there was an Under 18's women's team from a suburb of Sydney several years ago that had the bodysuits. In their wisdom the players had chosed to make the tops of the suits out of ventmesh. As an easily excited 16 year old referee at the time, it was AWFUL hard to cocentrate on the game

Halfway through the season, after many complaints by parents, they changed their uniforms - one of the saddest days in my life

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Ahh come on, this is a ridiculous argument. I claim that
100% of all Americans play basketball and less than .00001%
of the rest of the known universe plays basketball.
In fact, I'm claiming that there are an additional 100
million uncounted Americans playing organized basketball
today. So I'm right & you're wrong. (When you substantiate
your figures I'll substantiate mine.)

On a serious note, I'll be willing to bet that there are
more *kids* playing organized basketball up through the
12th grade in the US than there are *people* who even know
what a basketball looks like outside the US. Well, except
those who have seen a basketball being dribbled or shot by
an NBA guy on TV or in a picture.

You da man, Dan!

[JRutledge]

Guys, you cares what level is better, and who plays more basketball. I believe that the orginal question was why American officials had the attitude about FIBA rule?

Let us face it, basketball is an American sport period. Before kids can walk kids are trying to bounce a basketball. We have hoops on almost every playground. Look in almost any shoe store you are going to find the biggest section of shoes for basketball. Almost all the sports wear in those stores are basketball gear. You do not see the same attitude towards soccer, or baseball, or football even. You can find basketball stuff all year round, unlike the other sports. And then that we get to see what is on TV, basketball is on the tube almost year round. If the NBA is not one TV, then there is NCAA, and then there is the WNBA during the summer.

Us Americans do not see FIBA basketball but for every 4 years, and considering the TV coverage not many of us really saw any of that coverage at all anyway.

So to expect a group of people, from a particular country to think of a set of rules or a game that is literally foreign to us, is a stretch at best.

And as officials, to expect us to care about a level that most of us do not have a desire to officiate, is kind of silly too. I do not want to ever be seen on a Women's NCAA game in life, am I wrong because I do not want to do that? Or am I wrong that I do not want to do a NBA game either?

Look, when we are children many of our dreams are established by what ever we see or know. Officiating dreams are no different. And if you have not figured it already, FIBA levels are no differerent here.

Sorry, when I watched the show Preps on Fox Sports, I did not hear a single kid talk about going to the Olympics or wanting to play basketball overseas. NCAA and NBA was it, but you already knew that.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

...
On to uniforms - there was an Under 18's women's team from a suburb of Sydney several years ago that had the bodysuits. In their wisdom the players had chosed to make the tops of the suits out of ventmesh. As an easily excited 16 year old referee at the time, it was AWFUL hard to cocentrate on the game

See, it's those damn metric numbers again! Even the Aussies
have a hard time (ahem) understanding them!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Guys, you cares what level is better, and who plays more basketball. I believe that the orginal question was why American officials had the attitude about FIBA rule?

While it may seem silly to you, you made some of the exact some points that I made. It's just discussion and I, for one, unfortunately have nothing better to do today.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Is that because the numbers were in metric units???

Good one!!!!!
mick

[Malcolm Tucker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Is that because the numbers were in metric units???

Hey are you guys still using BINARY!!!

[JeffRef]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Reminds me of the old saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"...if a person is playing or reffing in an area which uses FIBA rules, you better know the FIBA rules...if not, why should we care what the differences are? I had the opportunity several years ago to ref the Nike World Master's games in Portland, Oregon...it was a blast, and they used international rules for the most part...I worked one game with a guy from Canada and a guy from Australia - interesting to say the least...best part of the whole tournament was reffing the Australian Women's team of 30 and under - they wore those same uniform/tights things their Olympic team wears - made it awful hard to concentrate on the game!!

Do you remember the Canadian's name?

[BigDave]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Guys, you cares what level is better, and who plays more basketball. I believe that the orginal question was why American officials had the attitude about FIBA rule?

Let us face it, basketball is an American sport period. Before kids can walk kids are trying to bounce a basketball. We have hoops on almost every playground. Look in almost any shoe store you are going to find the biggest section of shoes for basketball. Almost all the sports wear in those stores are basketball gear. You do not see the same attitude towards soccer, or baseball, or football even. You can find basketball stuff all year round, unlike the other sports. And then that we get to see what is on TV, basketball is on the tube almost year round. If the NBA is not one TV, then there is NCAA, and then there is the WNBA during the summer.

Us Americans do not see FIBA basketball but for every 4 years, and considering the TV coverage not many of us really saw any of that coverage at all anyway.

So to expect a group of people, from a particular country to think of a set of rules or a game that is literally foreign to us, is a stretch at best.

And as officials, to expect us to care about a level that most of us do not have a desire to officiate, is kind of silly too. I do not want to ever be seen on a Women's NCAA game in life, am I wrong because I do not want to do that? Or am I wrong that I do not want to do a NBA game either?

Look, when we are children many of our dreams are established by what ever we see or know. Officiating dreams are no different. And if you have not figured it already, FIBA levels are no differerent here.

Sorry, when I watched the show Preps on Fox Sports, I did not hear a single kid talk about going to the Olympics or wanting to play basketball overseas. NCAA and NBA was it, but you already knew that.

Peace

Holy s--t!!

The last guy I thought that would jump in as a mediator was JRutledge! He's usually stirring the pot. Now, JR, before you go typing up a storm, I'm just ribbing you a bit. No, really, put down the thesaurus. I'm just kidding.

Love ya, Man!