The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 07:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tidewater Virginia
Posts: 252
Article from the local sports page for your reading enjoyment.


A boxed-in feeling on the court
Peninsula District basketball coaches agree that the coach's box should be extended.

By JASON JORDAN
247-4648

February 7 2006

It's 12 feet long and 2 feet wide, and if high school basketball coaches stay within its boundaries, the coach's box serves as a safe zone. Take a step outside the rectangle, and he or she loses their privilege to stand. Make that same mistake twice, and the coach can get the boot.

"I guess you could say it's kind of like being in jail," Bethel boys basketball coach Craig Brehon said.

Good luck to coaches trying to holler at the 12th man on their bench while serving their sentence - all 32 minutes - because the box stops at the bench's midpoint.

High school basketball coaches know all too well the power of the coach's box, and most Peninsula District coaches agree that its parameters limit their coaching abilities on the sideline.

"It impedes us in being able to coach more," Brehon said.

Steve Whitley, who serves as rules interpreter of Peninsula Board 125 for officials, said that coming into this season the coach's box was a point of emphasis for refs: The National Federation of State High School Associations and the Virginia High School League felt that coaches were abusing the box.

Also, the NFHS rules book states that "it is a distinct advantage to the coach who is permitted to be out of the box because the coach has a better chance to communicate with his or her team."

"It was for two reasons," Whitley said of the coach's box crackdown. "They thought the officials were doing a bad job of managing it, and they thought the coaches were ignoring it. If a coach can go to the opposite side of the court and communicate with his players, it can be a tremendous advantage."

According to VHSL rules, refs are supposed to warn coaches the first time they step out of the box, unless the coach is "behaving in an unsportsmanlike way." But Brehon, who has received one technical foul this season for being out of the box, said that only experienced refs give the courtesy of a warning.

"Some refs are quick with the whistle," he said.

Brehon understands that extending the box to halfcourt might cause confusion for the scorekeeper and the clock operator, but he thinks the box should be extended to the baseline, the way it is in college. And if Brehon yanks a player out of the game and that player heads to the end of the bench, as is often the case, Brehon can't give instructions to that player unless he moves to a seat within the confines of the box.

"It creates confusion when you can't tell a player why you pulled him out," Brehon said. "He's got to come all the way back down to where you are for you to talk with him, and in small gyms things get crowded."

That's why Menchville coach Erick Mays would be content if the box would be extended to the end of the bench. Mays estimates that the area from the end of the bench to the baseline covers about 8 feet.

"I have no need to go to the baseline," he said. "But I should be able to walk down and talk to my players."

Whitley agrees with Brehon. He said that as long as the coach isn't trying to upstage the ref, he should be allowed to walk down to the baseline. What stops the extension is the NFHS, which decides the placement and dimensions of the box.

"I wish it would extend to the baseline," Whitley said. "The way it is right now doesn't give the coaches a great deal of room, but they want us to pay more attention to it this year."

Therein lies the big issue for Phoebus coach James Daniel. He said that officials often are so focused on policing the box that it affects their ability to make accurate calls.

"A ref will remind you that you're outside of the box four times during a game," Daniel said. "It hinders the game because they're paying more attention to the box sometimes."

The coaches might be interested to know that the NFHS told officials that if they don't do a better job of managing the box, they plan to go back to when there was no coach's box at all. That would force coaches to sit the entire game.

"We're helping them out," Whitley said. "We told the coaches before the season how the games were going to be called. We're not going to run down the court and look back to make sure they're in the box. Our primary focus is the 10 players on the court. But they knew before the season and even before games that we watch the box."

Problem is, there aren't stipulations in the rules that say if a coach is allowed to step his or her foot out of the box or if the technical only is assessed when the coach completely comes out of the box. The vague interpretations create confusion for coaches. "You just don't know how much leverage you get with that rule," Brehon said. "I haven't seen consistency from crew to crew with that. When the game is going on, I'm not looking down at the box because I'm a hands-on type of coach."

Those are the differences that Brehon has noticed this season. He can't see much difference in the number of technical fouls that are given as a result of the box, Brehon just doesn't know what to expect coming into games. But Whitley said that he tells refs to use common sense when giving technicals.

"I tell them if they're straddling the line, don't be a stickler," he said. "If the guy is four or five feet out of the box screaming at you, then take care of business. We try to preach consistency, but when you've got 114 refs, it's hard to get that. But for the most part, the coaches are good about staying in the box."

But will it get bigger? That's up to the coaches, Whitley says.

"If they fuss enough, they're going to change something," he said. "The problems with the box aren't just here, it's nationwide. It's going to change soon." «
Copyright © 2006, Daily Press
__________________
Failure is fertile ground on which to plant new seeds.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 08:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally posted by ranjo
According to VHSL rules, refs are supposed to warn coaches the first time they step out of the box, unless the coach is "behaving in an unsportsmanlike way." But Brehon, who has received one technical foul this season for being out of the box, said that only experienced refs give the courtesy of a warning.

"Some refs are quick with the whistle," he said.
Yeah, they're real quick with the whistle. That's why a coach who admittedly ignores the box has received 1 technical all year.

Dumbass.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 08:26am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
I don't really give two hoots about the box. I think a resolution would be to let them have from the start of the current box to the baseline. This way they would not get in the way of the table crew. Also, when they are complaining instead of coaching, the refs (all of us) should just T them up and get on with the game. The coach will not be able to make as much of a scene while seated so it will make the game better.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 09:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
I don't really give two hoots about the box. I think a resolution would be to let them have from the start of the current box to the baseline. This way they would not get in the way of the table crew.
Tom, how would extending the box toward the endline keep the coach from getting in front of the table?
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 09:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910


"I guess you could say it's kind of like being in jail," Bethel boys basketball coach Craig Brehon said.



What a moron! Blame the NFHS for too small of a box. Blame the refs for enforcing it. Hey coach, just stay in the box and coach and you won't have any problems.


And if Brehon yanks a player out of the game and that player heads to the end of the bench, as is often the case, Brehon can't give instructions to that player unless he moves to a seat within the confines of the box.


Oh my gosh no! You mean the player has to move to a seat closer to the coach? So unreasonable. Another moron!

Z
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 10:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
My favorite part of the article is when they complain about officials policing the box and not paying attention to the game. Maybe if they would stay in the box it wouldn't be a problem? Perhaps? If they think the box is a problem, send them to Iowa where boy's coaches can't stand at all. They seem to adjust.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 10:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref

I've seen replays of games that John Wooden coached. To the TV camera it looked like he did nothing but sit calmly on the end of the bench - we know he was good at quietly chewing on officials but that's another thread.

Anyway, he was able to be relatively successful without having to pace up & down the sideline like a hungry animal in a cage.



Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 10:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
I thought the box was a privilege granted, not a constitutional right. The "Rule" was that they couldn't stand or walk around at all! The box is an extra advantage we give to coaches who are reasonable and who act like adults during the game. We don't punish coaches for being bad, just rescind their privileges.

In fact, I may start saying that in pre-game:

"In Oregon, coaches who act mature and responsible are given a coaching box as a privilege to allow them to be up off the bench working with their players. Coaches who abuse this privilege have it rescinded, and must stay on the bench."
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 07, 2006, 12:26pm
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
I don't really give two hoots about the box. I think a resolution would be to let them have from the start of the current box to the baseline. This way they would not get in the way of the table crew.
Tom, how would extending the box toward the endline keep the coach from getting in front of the table?
I was only saying my quote above to say I don't care where they go as long as they are restricted from going in front of the table. If they aren't coaching and they are acting like a JA, they should get a T whether the box extends to the endline or the box is one foot wide!
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 09, 2006, 07:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,002
"A ref will remind you that you're outside of the box four times during a game," Daniel said. "It hinders the game because they're paying more attention to the box sometimes."
=================================

It only hinders the game because the official shouldn't be warning the coach FOUR times! Why in the world is the official doing that? He should assess a technical foul and have the coach sit down. That will take care of the problem and allow the official to focus on the action on the court.

Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 09, 2006, 11:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
The dreaded coaching box! The coaches are complain about the box because official are not consistent.(True) I have come to learn that the box is a "status quo" thing in my area. The more experienced officials do not enforce it. I asked why it is a POE most reply (The classic)"as long as they are not speaking to me they can do whatever they want". I find this statement dishearten. I want to do things properly. During the conferences respectfully (coaches; players), the official I am working with does not mention the coaching box I remind the coaches about the box. (Coaches, stay within the confines of the box).

When one of them does not heed to the reminder before the game. I issue the warning and record it in the book like the state ask us to. This works!! no problem rest of game.

Should the box be extended down to the end line? No

Small gyms and the coaching box that is another story.

My two pennies
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 09, 2006, 11:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
"A ref will remind you that you're outside of the box four times during a game," Daniel said. "It hinders the game because they're paying more attention to the box sometimes."
=================================

It only hinders the game because the official shouldn't be warning the coach FOUR times! Why in the world is the official doing that? He should assess a technical foul and have the coach sit down. That will take care of the problem and allow the official to focus on the action on the court.

I agree!! Four times in one game and still does not enforce it.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1