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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:26am
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In my daughter's HS game last night ref calls time out, has a few words with opposing player and then her coach. At the half, I ask ref what happened. Her response was that she had heard the player threaten one of my daughters teammates with physical harm, so she gave the player a warning and informed her coach of the same. Half-way through the second half, one of my daughters teammates had an ankle sprain serious enough where she was crying in pain. The same girl that had received the warning earlier screamed at the top of her lungs (not more than 10 feet from both refs) in the direction of the injured player "I hope she [email protected]#[email protected]$ing dies". To my surprise, neither ref responded with any kind of action. Fortunately, the coach sent this out of control girl to the locker room for the remainder of the game. My question is probably pretty obvious by now: shouldn't this girl have been ejected from the game or at least received a technical? Thanks in advance...
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:30am
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Yes, she should have received a technical for saying that.

No, you should not be talking to the officials at halftime or any other point in the game if you are a fan.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:33am
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Flagrant Technical.

As a fan, you are allowed to talk to the refs. They should not talk to you.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:35am
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Technical fouls are judgment calls based on each official. Not all officials handle the same situations the same way. So obviously the officials did not have the same reaction that you did. That is never going to change no matter what any of us think what happen. Just ask other officials about how they handle profanity, you will find 10 different answers and each answer will be handled differently based on the officialÂ’s experience and where they work.

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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:57am
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You will not like this, but in my judgement the officials handled this correctly.

What you probably didn't see was the coach sending in a substitute for the out of control player. Or the coach used some form of non verbal communiation with the ref to let them know he was going to handle the problem. Again in my opinion- letting the coach handle the problem is always the best way.

The T would follow if the coach didn't take care of it. Also if this player did something to cause the injury, then of course it is either an intentional foul, etc.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Man In Blue
You will not like this, but in my judgement the officials handled this correctly.

What you probably didn't see was the coach sending in a substitute for the out of control player. Or the coach used some form of non verbal communiation with the ref to let them know he was going to handle the problem. Again in my opinion- letting the coach handle the problem is always the best way.

The T would follow if the coach didn't take care of it. Also if this player did something to cause the injury, then of course it is either an intentional foul, etc.
I disagree 110%.

The time for the coach to handle this is when he selects his players and trains them to behave as part of his team.

If that was my game that player would be ejected immediately. If the coach then complained that *you* let him take care of it on Tuesday's game I would tell him *you* were dead wrong.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:12pm
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Color me suspicious, bellnier, about your description. She screamed "at the top of her lungs"?! Me thinks thou exaggerateth too much. It is hard enough to opine on things we didn't see or hear. It is even harder to opine on things we didn't see or hear that are colored by a fan with a rooting interest.

As you described it, yes of course the player's behavior warranted a T or a flagrant T. Ultimately, there is not much for you to stew over about this because the matter *was* dealt with - by her coach. In this respect - helping kids to learn - officials and coaches are on the same team. It sounds like the adult team did its job. No need to worry about who gets the glory....
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:13pm
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None of us were there, but assuming the description of the events were reasonably accurate, I'm with Juggling referee on this one: Flagrant T, automatic ejection & whatever resulting suspensions or other penalties the school or state assn. may hand down as a result. The young lady in question needs to be held responsible for her actions. Maybe a sharp wake up call now will prevent something more serious later.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:21pm
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man in blue

i completly disagree too with your assessment -- its great that the coach handled the situation the way he did but as a ref we are responsible for everything that goes on on the court -- and someone wishing out loud that another player would "f*&^*&% die" is a flagrant tech in my book -- at any level

what if a player commits a reach in foul and the coach tells you before you blow the whistle dont blow your whistle ill deal with him -- whats the point of having you on the court then
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:10pm
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Re: man in blue

Quote:
Originally posted by deecee
i completly disagree too with your assessment -- its great that the coach handled the situation the way he did but as a ref we are responsible for everything that goes on on the court -- and someone wishing out loud that another player would "f*&^*&% die" is a flagrant tech in my book -- at any level
I have to disagree with you. For one we do not know that the official heard the same thing or even knows this was said. We are only responsible for things we see and hear. We are not responsible for things said under someone's breathe, nor should we be. I am going to assume that the coach heard the comments and the officials probably did not hear the comments clearly.

Quote:
Originally posted by deecee
what if a player commits a reach in foul and the coach tells you before you blow the whistle dont blow your whistle ill deal with him -- whats the point of having you on the court then
This is not a good analogy if you ask me. We call fouls that we see not what we assume took place (at least I do not). It is also based on judgment of the officials. BTW, what is a "reach" foul?

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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:24pm
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jrut

i went by what the question described -- if thats how it went down you mean to say you would disagree -- as for reach fould you know what i mean lets say handcheck instead.

how would you react to a player who said "i hope you f#$%(*^ die" to another player or even you -- because if its just one technical i think thats not severe enough.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:29pm
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Bgtg...despite your suspicions, the player screamed so loudly that the entire gym went dead-silent. I can't say whether the refs heard it, but considering that they were sitting not ten feet from the players bench, it seems likely they did. Their body language suggested to me that they heard EVERY word. BTW, I'm not stewing at all about this, but was just curious how other refs would have handled this. My daughter plays in a pretty rough division (we needed a police escort out of the building two games ago) and they can handle themselves but, unfortunately, this kind of misbehavior is on the upswing. As far as refs talking to parents and fans at halftime...I guess some do and some don't...this one did.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:44pm
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally posted by bellnier
I can't say whether the refs heard it, but considering that they were sitting not ten feet from the players bench, it seems likely they did.
That's the problem right there! It's unauthorized mechanics to sit down during the game you're officiating.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:51pm
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It also depends on the climate of the game. I had one last year (Freshman girls, 1 game) where if I would have thrown 1 T, I would have had to toss both teams completely. It wasn't my proudest moment, but I put in the ear plugs, got in, got it done, and got out. Luckily in our case the only people hearing the language were the ones on the floor.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 02:09pm
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i think

he meant they were "Sitting" as in their location relative to the bench not physically sitting.

as to junker if thats what you have to do thats what you have to do -- if something crosses your line that you have set and you dont flag it then you sold out essentially (if you have to call the game then you have to call the game) -- but you would only call the game (or at least i would) after a couple T's for the same offense and maybe even a quick chat with players and coaches after then a couple ejections and another quick chat -- and then if i felt it was getting out of control and i had done everything i could i would make it clear to both sides what was going to happen next. the rest is up to the players and coaches to fix all you can do is put in 100% and thats it.
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