Wierd Situation

Nate1224hoops · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:27am

Had this come up last night. Very late in the 3rd quarter (16 sec.), my team is up by 2. Visitors get a quick score. We inbound the ball, opposing coach is asking for a TO. It wasnt granted initially. Then the trail official blows his whistle, inadvertantly. He said no time out will be granted, it is an inadvertant whistle. So he was about to administer the ball inbounds nearest the spot, when the opposing coach again ask for a TO. The lead official granted it!! I'm not sure about this one. I disagreed with the official granting the TO. His explanation was that the ball is now dead. My response is yes it is, but only because of an inadvertant whistle. I have officiated Varsity ball for about 8 years and have never seen this situation. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE!!!!!

ChrisSportsFan · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:32am

"Hey Coach, my bad. I shouldn't have honored his request but now we gotta TO. Go ahead and talk to your players."

Adam · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:44am

The lead official is right. In high school ball, the timeout is to be granted once the ball is dead. In NCAA, I believe they could not grant a TO during an inadvertent whistle.

Nate1224hoops · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:19am

I'm not sure about this one. The Trail who inadvertantly blew his whistle seemed to think that a TO could not be granted b/c he was beckoning everyone back onto the court. Just as the ball was about to be inbounded the Lead granted the TO. I didnt have a chance to talk to either to get an explanation. Is this addressed anywhere???

zebraman · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
I'm not sure about this one. The Trail who inadvertantly blew his whistle seemed to think that a TO could not be granted b/c he was beckoning everyone back onto the court. Just as the ball was about to be inbounded the Lead granted the TO. I didnt have a chance to talk to either to get an explanation. Is this addressed anywhere???

Yes, it's addressed in the rule book when it says that a time-out can be granted during a dead ball. There was a dead ball (regardless of how the dead ball came about - the inadvertant whistle) and the ref granted a T.O. End of story.

Z

All_Heart · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
The lead official is right. In high school ball, the timeout is to be granted once the ball is dead. In NCAA, I believe they could not grant a TO during an inadvertent whistle.

College Officials, can a TO be granted on an inadvertent whistle per NCAA rules?

AZ_REF · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:08am

Per NCAA rules a Timeout can NOT be granted during a dead ball for an inadvertent whistle. Per NFHS rules you may.

All_Heart · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by AZ_REF
Per NCAA rules a Timeout can NOT be granted during a dead ball for an inadvertent whistle. Per NFHS rules you may.

Thanks AZ_REF and Welcome to the Forum!

JCrow · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:24am

I made the exact same mistake on Saturday. I gave the ball back to the Team in pocession and told both Coaches sorry for the IW. (Of course, the defending Coach was clueless all game but that's another story.)

I would NEVER give him a TO on an IW during the Dead Ball. That gives him an unfair advanatge and is contradictory to the the spirit of fair play. My mistake shouldn't penalize the other Coach.

Nate1224hoops · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by JCrow
I made the exact same mistake on Saturday. I gave the ball back to the Team in pocession and told both Coaches sorry for the IW. (Of course, the defending Coach was clueless all game but that's another story.)

I would NEVER give him a TO on an IW during the Dead Ball. That gives him an unfair advanatge and is contradictory to the the spirit of fair play. My mistake shouldn't penalize the other Coach.

I think I understand what you are saying and it's exactly how I feel. The Trail made an honest mistake, he started to grant a TO after a made basket, but the ball was already inbounded. He blew his whistle to start to grant the TO then realized his mistake. If he now, since the ball is dead, grants the TO, isn't he giving the team on defense an unfair advantage. Why? Because w/out the IW the couldnt have taken the TO. JMO.

Dan_ref · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by AZ_REF
Per NCAA rules a Timeout can NOT be granted during a dead ball for an inadvertent whistle. Per NFHS rules you may.

I'm not sure I follow this. Rule reference?

AZ_REF · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:58am

That's what I get for answering off the top of my head. To clarify.

In NFHS you may grant a timeout during an inadvertent whistle, or if you grant a timeout to a time in error they are entitled to it. Per: Case 5.8.3 Situation E

In NCAA you MAY also grant a timeout during an inadvertent whistle. The NCAA rule does not include any language on erroneously granting a team a timeout.

In addition in the NCAA you can NOT sub during an inadvertent whistle in and NFHS you may. I think that's where my original response came from. Thanks for making me get a refrence Dan, I only spent about two seconds looking for it before and got caught up doing something else.

All_Heart · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 12:04pm

The rule that allows calling a timeout after an inadvertent whistle is 5-9-3c.

rainmaker · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Quote:

Originally posted by JCrow
I made the exact same mistake on Saturday. I gave the ball back to the Team in pocession and told both Coaches sorry for the IW. (Of course, the defending Coach was clueless all game but that's another story.)

I would NEVER give him a TO on an IW during the Dead Ball. That gives him an unfair advanatge and is contradictory to the the spirit of fair play. My mistake shouldn't penalize the other Coach.

I think I understand what you are saying and it's exactly how I feel. The Trail made an honest mistake, he started to grant a TO after a made basket, but the ball was already inbounded. He blew his whistle to start to grant the TO then realized his mistake. If he now, since the ball is dead, grants the TO, isn't he giving the team on defense an unfair advantage. Why? Because w/out the IW the couldnt have taken the TO. JMO.

I agree with both of you that it SHOULD be the way you say. Unfortunately, it's not. The NFHS does say that the TO should be given even if the ball is dead by a referee error.

In the OP, however, I'd have blown the TO and given it and called the whistle "late". "Coach, I had a little crumb in my whistle and I tried to blow the TO as the ball was falling through the basket, but it just wouldn't blow." If the requesting coach had indeed been asking for it all along, I think that's very reasonable.

Dan_ref · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AZ_REF
That's what I get for answering off the top of my head. To clarify.

In NFHS you may grant a timeout during an inadvertent whistle, or if you grant a timeout to a time in error they are entitled to it. Per: Case 5.8.3 Situation E

In NCAA you MAY also grant a timeout during an inadvertent whistle. The NCAA rule does not include any language on erroneously granting a team a timeout.

In addition in the NCAA you can NOT sub during an inadvertent whistle in and NFHS you may. I think that's where my original response came from. Thanks for making me get a refrence Dan, I only spent about two seconds looking for it before and got caught up doing something else.

No problem, AZ, I wasn't testing you I was testing whether I misunderstood something in the timeout rule myself, maybe there was something buried in there among all that media, non-media, internet game stuff that I missed.