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Re: Re: Thanks for the input....

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Quote:

Originally posted by JTRICE
Kajun ref in Texas is right.

Rule 9 Section 2 Article 11 says "The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary plane...."

The penalty says "The first violation of the throw-in boundary plane by an opponent of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay...."

So.... it is a violation.... and the ball is given back to the same team at the same place.....but because of the violation... by definition this is not an AP throw-in anymore.

Therefore the official (table) should not reverse the AP arrow.

So, let's say Team A scores, and Team B gets the endline throw-in. A1 reaches through, and the official calls the boundry plane violation. Does B lose the right to run the endline?

No. The throwing team retains the right to run the endline if the scoring team commits a violation or common foul before the throw-in ends and the succeeding throw-in would be on the endline. (NFHS 7-5-7)

Quote:

Originally posted by JTRICE
Held ball.
Possession arrow is pointing toward Team A's basket.
Official hands the ball to A1 for the throw-in.
B1 reaches across the end-line as he is trying to defend the throw-in.
Official blows whistle and warns Team B for crossing the vertical plane on the throw-in. The warning is recorded in the score book.
Official starts the throw-in again.
Throw-in is completed.

Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?

Nobody has given me a rules reference as to why the official was wrong for not reversing the AP Arrow.

MTD, Sr.

That is because they can't.
You got it right, Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. in your first post when you sited NFHS rule 9.2.11.

You stated correctly:
"Team A's original AP throw-in never ended so it does not lose the AP Arrow."
You didn't reference the rule covering that. That rule is:

6.4.4...The direction of the possesion arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating possesion throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates.

(And as I learned in the other post):
4.42.5...The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, an inbounds player other than the thrower.

Therefore, as you stated, the AP throw-in never ended. (ball was never passed. And never touched an inbounds player) Instead the violation occured.(not by the throw-in team)

And as Kajun Ref N Texas correctly stated
"So.... it is a violation.... and the ball is given back to the same team at the same place.....but because of the violation... by definition this is not an AP throw-in anymore."

(And that violation is addressed at the bottom of 9.2.):

Penalty: (Section 2) The ball becomes dead when the violation or technical foul occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponets for a throw-in at the original throw-in spot.

Team B violated. The penalty for the violation was that Team A was AWARDED a throw-in, not an AP throw-in.
(Yes, they the do receive the warning as stated in 9.2.11, Penalties: (Art.11) 1. The first violation....)

No change of AP arrow.

[Edited by Time2Ref on Feb 3rd, 2006 at 07:17 AM]