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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 06:13pm
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Hey I am a young referee (16 years old) and really love doing it. Just a couple questions that I didnt understand in the rulebook. While reading rule book I came across indirect technical and direct technical. Whats the difference. How do you know which one to call. Also how do you administer a T do you go to the scorer and say T on coach? Also while refing my game last week I think I made the right call but not sure. A1 is in backcourt and passes to A2 in frontcourt but A2 muffed the ball and rolled into the backcourt and A2 got the ball. I called nothing because I thought Team A had to have control in the frontcourt but the parents didnt agree! Did I make the right call? Not sure. Also any advice would be great! Thanks guys.
Travis
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 09:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATLBrvs326
Hey I am a young referee (16 years old) and really love doing it. Just a couple questions that I didnt understand in the rulebook. While reading rule book I came across indirect technical and direct technical. Whats the difference. How do you know which one to call. Also how do you administer a T do you go to the scorer and say T on coach? Also while refing my game last week I think I made the right call but not sure. A1 is in backcourt and passes to A2 in frontcourt but A2 muffed the ball and rolled into the backcourt and A2 got the ball. I called nothing because I thought Team A had to have control in the frontcourt but the parents didnt agree! Did I make the right call? Not sure. Also any advice would be great! Thanks guys.
Travis
Welcome to the forum, Travis. Just so happens to be my younger son's name. To answer your questions -
Basically, an indirect technical is a technical charged to the coach as a result of a technical foul called on one of his/her bench personnel, including players, asst coaches, trainers, etc. 3 indirects or one direct and 1 indirect gets the coach a trip to the locker room. Also can get an indirect T on coach if player dunks in warmups.
As far as mechanics in reporting technical, you've basically go it right. You go to the table and give signal for T, say "blue coach, technical foul, unsportsman-like conduct, 2 shots". Tell the coach he has lost the box and must stay seated. Clear the lane, 2 shots, ball at division line.

As far as your sitch, I'll let the group discuss as I think there will be some controversy. You did GOOD by not letting the fans influence you.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 11:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATLBrvs326
Also while refing my game last week I think I made the right call but not sure. A1 is in backcourt and passes to A2 in frontcourt but A2 muffed the ball and rolled into the backcourt and A2 got the ball. I called nothing because I thought Team A had to have control in the frontcourt but the parents didnt agree! Did I make the right call? Not sure. Also any advice would be great! Thanks guys.
Travis
Team A did have TC in the FC. Player control in the FC is not required.

Still, many get confused. That's why I, and many others, split the requirement into 2.

Memorize these four requirements (and the trhow-in, jump ball, defense excpetions)and you'll get all the BC plays situations correct:

1) Team Control
2) Ball reaches FC
3) Team A last to touch before ball goes to BC
4) Team A first to touch after ball goes to BC

As you can see, all four rwequirements were met in your play -- so it should have been a violation.
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:09am
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by ATLBrvs326
Also while refing my game last week I think I made the right call but not sure. A1 is in backcourt and passes to A2 in frontcourt but A2 muffed the ball and rolled into the backcourt and A2 got the ball. I called nothing because I thought Team A had to have control in the frontcourt but the parents didnt agree! Did I make the right call? Not sure. Also any advice would be great! Thanks guys.
Travis
Team A did have TC in the FC. Player control in the FC is not required.

Still, many get confused. That's why I, and many others, split the requirement into 2.

Memorize these four requirements (and the trhow-in, jump ball, defense excpetions)and you'll get all the BC plays situations correct:

1) Team Control
2) Ball reaches FC
3) Team A last to touch before ball goes to BC
4) Team A first to touch after ball goes to BC

As you can see, all four rwequirements were met in your play -- so it should have been a violation.
And if I might add to Bob's comments..... as far as backcourt/frontcourt location: you are where you are, until you get to where you are going.
So, in the following situation, suppose A1 is bringing the ball up court and crosses into the front court, but is pressured and passes the ball to A2 who has jumped from the backcourt to the frontcourt and catches the ball in the air while in the frontcourt. This is a BC violation, since A2 is still considered to be in the backcourt. Had it happen to me in a game just last night.
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan

And if I might add to Bob's comments..... as far as backcourt/frontcourt location: you are where you are, until you get to where you are going.
It's a little clearer if you say, "You are where you WERE, till you get where you're going."

It also applies to in-bounds and out-of-bounds.
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 01:29am
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Welcome to the forum and to the ranks of officiating!

Agree with others - what you described is a back court violation. Don't feel bad - I've seen varsity coaches that don't understand this rule. Remember for the next time....

Do you have a case book to go along with your rule book? It does a pretty good job of giving examples thst explain the intricacies of the various rules - including back court violations.
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan

And if I might add to Bob's comments..... as far as backcourt/frontcourt location: you are where you are, until you get to where you are going.
It's a little clearer if you say, "You are where you WERE, till you get where you're going."

It also applies to in-bounds and out-of-bounds.
That's what I meant. Thanks, rain. Travis, this place is the place to be if you want to be the best official you can be. Suggest having your rule books handy when you go onto this forum. Vets refer to them quite a bit. Always back up your statements with the correct rule(s). Jack
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan

And if I might add to Bob's comments..... as far as backcourt/frontcourt location: you are where you are, until you get to where you are going.
It's a little clearer if you say, "You are where you WERE, till you get where you're going."

It also applies to in-bounds and out-of-bounds.
That's what I meant. Thanks, rain.
I knew that was what you meant. I'm just trying to earn my "Vocabulary Nazi" trophy!
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATLBrvs326
While reading rule book I came across indirect technical and direct technical. Whats the difference.
Travis, just to be 100% sure, are you talking about high school (NFHS) rules? Or are you working with a different set of rules? Since you seem to be in the USA and just starting out, I would assume it's high school rules, but I wanted to double check. If you're talking about high school rules, then the answers you've gotten here are correct. But the answer is different, for example, in NCAA rules.

Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan
3 indirects or one direct and 1 indirect gets the coach a trip to the locker room.
This, however, is not correct. Three indirects gets the coach ejected, or two directs, or one direct and two indirects will also earn him/her an ejection.

BTW, welcome to the forum and good luck with the rest of your season!
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 10:12pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by ATLBrvs326
While reading rule book I came across indirect technical and direct technical. Whats the difference.
Travis, just to be 100% sure, are you talking about high school (NFHS) rules? Or are you working with a different set of rules? Since you seem to be in the USA and just starting out, I would assume it's high school rules, but I wanted to double check. If you're talking about high school rules, then the answers you've gotten here are correct. But the answer is different, for example, in NCAA rules.

Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan
3 indirects or one direct and 1 indirect gets the coach a trip to the locker room.
This, however, is not correct. Three indirects gets the coach ejected, or two directs, or one direct and two indirects will also earn him/her an ejection.

BTW, welcome to the forum and good luck with the rest of your season!
I meant 1 direct and 2 indirects, too.

I hadn't mentioned 2 directs because it didn't involve an indirect and that's what Travis was interested in. Otherwise, I would have mentioned 1 flagrant technical would also get coach kicked. Thanks Chuck, good catch.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 10:23pm
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Thanks guys for all the help. And by the way I am using the NFHS rule book.
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