Varsity ref jobs a matter of black and white?

[TriggerMN]

No what I am saying that as an African-American, to get noticed is we have to be better or different to get noticed. For example if one guy is white and another guy is Black that both officiate, it is not unusual to see the Black guy to have to excel more in order to get the same chance.



FWIW, in the areas where I have worked, the opposite is true. Whether or not one agrees with it means nothing. It's the way it is...deal with it, move on, and bust your behind to be the best official YOU can be.

[Love2ref4Ever]

As of 9:26 Eastern Standard time 688 views and 30 replies....things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
As of 9:26 Eastern Standard time 688 views and 30 replies....things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Why is every thing thumbs down with you? Do you have a negative approach to life in everything you do?

There's another thread with 798 views and only 22 posts. BIG FLIP! Get over it. Not everyone who reads wants to comment.

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by eastcoastref
However, one place where I believe there is a bias is with male/female officials. There is a perception on our board that female officials are given the opportunity to move long the ranks a bit faster. My perception is that if there is a male official and a female official with the same ability that the female official will generally get the better assignment. It seems that female officials have a better chance to "move up" than male officials.

From what I see, with women, it's a double edged sword. Women are encouraged to work the women's game and if they choose to do so, they have a better chance of moving up quickly than the men. However, opportunities for women to work high level men's games, even BV games are much much fewer and far between.

In terms of race, it seems like it has a lot to do with the area. I don't doubt that in some places minorities probably have to do more to get noticed in order to get hired, whereas in other areas, the minority official might get the nod among two equally qualified officials because conferences want to augment their ranks with minority officials.

Ultimately, though, it comes down to how you can call a game. Other factors, such as race, may help or hurt you depending on the area. That's not necessarily fair, but officials who have, "the look" will also get the benefit of the doubt, as will well connected officials. That shouldn't be an indictment on anybody, but the fact is that like any other job, the employer will hire who he/she thinks is the best fit, for whatever reason, and that coordinator of officials has to live with the results of who he/she hires. Basically, if the coordinator routinely hires people who can't get the job done, that person will ultimately be out of a job.

[JRutledge]

SMEngmann,

Very well said.

Peace

[Love2ref4Ever]

There are 14 different icons that are available for me, or anyone to choose from in this forum. In this case the thumbs down seems apropriate. Maybe posted this thread has raised a few eyebrows with some folks. I am sure though that the officials who benefit from such bias more then likely won't have much to say. But, I did expect those that are affected by such bias to respond. Hopefully some actions will be taken in the areas where this sort of stuff takes place. And for me to respond to your remark would be like entertaining a fool, which is something that I don't do!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
There are 14 different icons that are available for me, or anyone to choose from in this forum. In this case the thumbs down seems apropriate. Maybe posted this thread has raised a few eyebrows with some folks. I am sure though that the officials who benefit from such bias more then likely won't have much to say. But, I did expect those that are affected by such bias to respond. Hopefully some actions will be taken in the areas where this sort of stuff takes place. And for me to respond to your remark would be like entertaining a fool, which is something that I don't do!

I'm sorry but I wasn't attempting to entertain you or any other fool. I was simply pointing out that there are 14 different icons that are available for me, or anyone to choose from in this forum. Every time you post, you use the thumbs down.

My guess is that you're one of the officials that we've discussed. Unable to get varisty games, unwilling to accept the fact that you're not as good as you think you are, unwilling to realize that playing the race card won't get you better games, and just dumb enough to not realize that playing the race card when it isn't valid diminishes the struggles of others who are discriminated against.

At some point in your life, I hope your outlook can become less negative. After all, you could have fallen asleep last night and not woke up this morning. There are a lot of things that are a lot more important than not being able to call varsity ball.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 30th, 2006 at 09:40 AM]

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by eastcoastref
However, one place where I believe there is a bias is with male/female officials. There is a perception on our board that female officials are given the opportunity to move long the ranks a bit faster. My perception is that if there is a male official and a female official with the same ability that the female official will generally get the better assignment. It seems that female officials have a better chance to "move up" than male officials.

It does not bother me when a roughly equally well-qualified woman gets an assigment to officiate a girls varsity basketball game over me. It does not bother me when any historically underrepresented minority gets an assignment, provided roughly equivalent skills/performance (I don't imagine that "exact" equivalence is possible). I *want* my daughter to see women in positions of authority; I think this is good for her and good for society.

In my judgment, affirmative action is good for everyone, not just the directly affirmed individuals.

[SeanFitzRef]

I live in the same general area as JRut, and I concur with his assessment of the situation in our area. There is a tendency for assignors to 'buddy up' the assignments so that thier friends and family get first dibs on the spotlight games, then everything else is dished out to whomever. It is definitely true that as a minority official here, we have to 'work harder, do more, and be better' in order to move up. I have worked varsity games with officials that would have a hard time doing a solid 8th grade game, and I have worked a freshman A/B game with some that could easily handle the pressures of a varsity game. But if you aren't 'connected' (by whatever connection you need with some assignors) then you just won't get the games. I've worked several games where I'm the ONLY darker face in the gym, so I already know that I have to bring my A+++++ game, instead of just the A+.

The flip side is that some people don't want to work hard, and just expect longevity to get them what they want. This tends to hurt those of us that want to move up due to the quality of our work, not just the quantity. Guilt by association.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by bgtg19
In my judgment, affirmative action is good for everyone, not just the directly affirmed individuals.

You are right, but wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where it isn't necessary?

In BBR's defense, I think his question had more to do with repeated use of an icon instead of the content of the post. At least that is how I read it.

In Nevada, there are women who can handle BV and I worked with them with no concerns. I don't think I would have the same comfort level where I am now. It isn't an issue with the women officials race or whether I like them as people or not.

I would encourage any woman offiicial to push towards any level of officiating they want, to include BV games. I would guess most top women's officials (NCAA) would have no problem at all in a BV game. It would probably be a piece of cake for them.

I belong to a board that is mostly black and a board that is mixed - with a white commmissioner. When I first go to the area I was initially on the board that is mostly black and I wasn't working. I took matters into my own hands and went dual. The commissioners (what we call assigners here) have changed on my original ("home") board but I still do more games on the other board. By a large margin, I have been shown more "love" from the mixed board. I say all of this to say that at the heart of the matter, we have to be good. Institutional racism (good explanation Rut) will continue to exist until people come together to change it. Unfortunately, it may never happen in our lifetimes.

[Ref-X]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I cannot speak for this area. I can tell you working in the inner-city is not always what it is cracked up to be. It is also a misconception to think the best ball is player there. Here many of the best teams are in the suburbs. So if you are only working in one area, you can get lost out there. Officials is more than just working the best ball, it is being seen by the right people. If the right people are not working in the inner city, that can be a major setback if you ask me.

Peace

This is what I am trying to say, when I say exposure. How can an official work state tournament game or any other high profile games if no one ever comes to see you work? Yes there may be some good basketball in the inner city, but the most of these schools are in places where many non-black officials do not want to go. So the assigners are saying let these officials deal with working games in the HOOD. While the non-black officials are working the big games, at the top schools, in front of big crows. There needs to be more balance.

[Love2ref4Ever]

I am not one of those officials of color who can't get a varsity schedule, so I don't even know what it feels like. But, I do know that it does exist and I am not even suprised that there are officials who have nothing to say about this matter. This is not about me, or anyone else playing the race card. I didn't write the article, I just posted the link to the article. Anyone can pretend that this is just some disgruntled officials being passed over. I quite frankly know how things are in this world. I delt with it in school and in the work place. I have been the only african american on my job for 18 years, so I am use to playing the game. I have just been blessed to know how to play it very well. It's just a pitty that on and off the court some people just lack integrity. And as far as the thumbs down goes, I use it because I can!

[BktBallRef]

Unfortunately for you, you don't get to determine when or why other posters post. So get off your high horse and come back down to the ground with the rest of us. This situation does not effect everyone, everywhere and no one is required to post. Only a fool would think that it does.

[Love2ref4Ever]

There are also public schools here in New York City, like in Harlem, Brooklyn, and the Bronx where alot of white officials may feel uncomfortable working because there in rough areas and I can understand that. But, I have yet to turn down a game because of location. Mind you, I don't blame anyone for turning back a game if they feel that there safety is at risk. But becasue of the crazy crowds and dealing with all types of elements working in the inner city has made me develope a tough skin. Pressure is something else, and I have seen folks get rattled easy in rough areas.

[Love2ref4Ever]

A hit dog will always holler!