The Official Forum - Would you do this?

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)

- - Would you do this? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/24479-would-you-do.html)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
My rule reference was for NCAA

The original post starting this thread said that this happened during a high school junior varsity game. That's why we've been using NFHS rules.

Right I have to realize that different areas use different rule sets. In Manitoba we use NCAA for High school, with some conference modifications. Guess it best to specify what rule set we are referencing in the post.

It might make it a little less confusing, but pointing out the difference to a corresponding NCAA rule can't be anything but helpful either. For people using both rulesets, I think it's a worthwhile exercise.

Worthwhile for me anyway - guess I was getting my rulebooks confused...again...and again...and again.

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
My rule reference was for NCAA

Then your ruling is still incorrect.

This was after a TO -- the "resumption of play" procedure applies in both codes (NCAA reference 4-54, especially AR 32).

The team wasn't "delaying the ball from being made live" by staying in the huddle -- the ball was made live, just without the team on the court / ready to play.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra

The prescribed mechanic is the officials step toward the huddle on the first horn with 1 finger up saying, "First horn."

Then you stay there until they break. If that second horn goes and they are still in a huddle so are you with 2 fingers up, "Second horn let's break, we need them on the floor NOW coach."

I have not had to put a ball on the floor in like 10 years, and I haven't had a partner do it either.

My copy of the NFHS officials manual is quite different.

Now I'm not advocating being overly strict about this, but I'm certainly not going to be over there begging the team to come out and play. I try to follow the proper procedure just maybe bend it a little to give them some leeway if appropriate for the situation.

So your manual does not say to step toward the huddle and say first horn? You must have a faulty one.:)

The second part is just good game management and preventive officiating. If we have slow huddle breakers, that part that says, "The officials should then move into their proper positions to resume play," will take 10-15 seconds.;)

Bob, OP says "start of second half", but that isn't a big deal IMO.

I think I would factor in the score and time as well as whether the team was slow coming out all game. If the lead is large enough and the team isn't good enough to come back, I'm not going to pour salt in the wound.
However, I will put the ball on the floor if the team is coming out slow and most of the time I will do this when the slow team is on offense. This sort of puts a little pep in their step.

Man, lost my train of thought due to work getting in the way. The nerve!

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
My rule reference was for NCAA

Then your ruling is still incorrect.

This was after a TO -- the "resumption of play" procedure applies in both codes (NCAA reference 4-54, especially AR 32).

The team wasn't "delaying the ball from being made live" by staying in the huddle -- the ball was made live, just without the team on the court / ready to play.

Yes Sir, I agree with that A.R. when the teams are already back on the floor after the TO. Direct quote from NCAA rulebook. Not that I have to quote it to you, I just want to.

"Section 3. Indirect Technical Fouls
The following shall result in an indirect technical foul to be charged to a team
(coach), player or, in the case of a substitution, to that individual.
Art. 1. Delay of game. A team shall not delay the game. Delay of the game
shall include, when the game clock is not running:
a. Consuming a full minute by not being ready when it is time to
start either half or any extra period;
b. Failure to supply scorers with data per Rule 3-3;
c. Repeatedly delaying the game by preventing the ball from being
promptly put in play, such as delaying the administration of a
throw-in or free throw by engaging in a team huddle any place
on the playing court.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an
indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.
d. Failing to remove chairs/stools immediately after the warning
signal of any timeout and to complete cleanup before the final
warning signal alerts all personnel that play is going to resume.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an
indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter."

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 26th, 2006 at 09:01 AM]

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
My rule reference was for NCAA

Then your ruling is still incorrect.

This was after a TO -- the "resumption of play" procedure applies in both codes (NCAA reference 4-54, especially AR 32).

The team wasn't "delaying the ball from being made live" by staying in the huddle -- the ball was made live, just without the team on the court / ready to play.

Yes Sir, I agree with that A.R. when the teams are already back on the floor after the TO. Direct quote from NCAA rulebook. Not that I have to quote it to you, I just want to.

"Section 3. Indirect Technical Fouls
The following shall result in an indirect technical foul to be charged to a team
(coach), player or, in the case of a substitution, to that individual.
Art. 1. Delay of game. A team shall not delay the game. Delay of the game
shall include, when the game clock is not running:
a. Consuming a full minute by not being ready when it is time to
start either half or any extra period;
b. Failure to supply scorers with data per Rule 3-3;
c. Repeatedly delaying the game by preventing the ball from being
promptly put in play, such as delaying the administration of a
throw-in or free throw by engaging in a team huddle any place
on the playing court.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an
indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter.
d. Failing to remove chairs/stools immediately after the warning
signal of any timeout and to complete cleanup before the final
warning signal alerts all personnel that play is going to resume.
1. One warning shall be given to a team that fails to comply; an
indirect technical foul shall be assessed thereafter."

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 26th, 2006 at 09:01 AM]

Unless the chairs or stools are playing the game how is that relevant to the topic at hand?;)

You obviously have not seen some of the games I have officiated. It was undetermined if the players were chairs or pylons. :)

I have done the same. Usually after a stern warning to the coach on the first offense. I would make sure the coach REMEMBERS that you are going to play on the second horn. If huddles continue to create a delay, simple, play without them!!!!!!!!!!!!