But wait! There's more!

[assignmentmaker]

It all goes by in a flash.

Rule 4-25-1 says a held ball occurs when: "Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

But what about the situation where A is already in control of the ball when B puts hands on? Somewhere along a continuum, it would appear, at least the following things can happen:

1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

This, and other conundrums both real and imaginary, are addressed, if not explained away, in my new rules book "Rational Basketball".

[BktBallRef]

IMHO, most of your conundrums are imaginary.

The rule says "control," not "player control," not "team control," but simply "control."

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
This, and other conundrums both real and imaginary, are addressed, if not explained away, in my new rules book "Rational Basketball"....

Which I'll buy a copy of as soon as my association adopts "Rational Basketball" as our ruleset.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
IMHO, most of your conundrums are imaginary.

The rule says "control," not "player control," not "team control," but simply "control."

Does the rules book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those things? That would be good.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.

Oh, you say that to all the girls.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Oh, you say that to all the girls.

Sorry if I confused you with a little common sense....

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Sorry if I confused you with a little common sense....

Do you know, does the Rules Book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those defined terms?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[/B]

Do you know, does the Rules Book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those defined terms? [/B][/QUOTE]What difference does it make if there is no question as to the actual purpose, intent and application of the rule?

JR. Vote for me. I'll make sure that all rules remain rational.